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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS
Tech....I think he said it here...



I think he's planning on smashing it up on regular bases...
Maybe it's just me. All I ever ask of anyone is to give me the plan and the details. The word "derby" doesn't mean a damned thing to me. Could be a demolition derby, a circle track derby, a figure 8 derby, a sand derby, a parking lot derby, a mud bog derby, a hill climb derby or a CIRCLE-JERK derby for all I know. You can smash it up in any of those venues.

NEW INTERIORS, no disrespect meant toward you at all.

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Last edited by techinspector1; 08-23-2009 at 09:09 PM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 09:29 PM
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yes full on demolition derby car. not a full on finale end of night smash every car in sight deal but race around the track as in heat racing with 6 or 7 other cars.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman16
yes full on demolition derby car. not a full on finale end of night smash every car in sight deal but race around the track as in heat racing with 6 or 7 other cars.
Thank you.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 06:57 AM
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You would be totally wasting your time and money to mod the engine for higher revving horsepower. The top speed that you will ever reach can't be much over 50 mph, if you're doing it right, so put the time and money into all the little tricks and such that go into a derby-winning car. You will never see a winning derby car/driver w/a hot rod engine. There's just no point in it. You want something to live under duress- to live when overheated, low on oil pressure, etc.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 07:21 AM
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Around here I believe they refer to that type of racing as Enduro racing. A cross between street stocks and demo derby. They race for like 50 laps with no cautions.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineczar
Around here I believe they refer to that type of racing as Enduro racing. A cross between street stocks and demo derby. They race for like 50 laps with no cautions.
And those guys want good engines. Yeah, the car gets beat up but they just beat them back into shape. If the drive train is built well, they don't have to spend time on the whole package each weekend getting ready for the next race. Is that what you are doing dman? If you tell us exactly what you are doing, we can help you better. Tells us man lol. What kind of track surface will you be running on? Clay, buttfault, loose dirt, muddy, icy
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineczar
Around here I believe they refer to that type of racing as Enduro racing. A cross between street stocks and demo derby. They race for like 50 laps with no cautions.

I think you have a complete mis-understanding the Enduro or cruiser class in dirt track racing. It is not a demo derby at all, although it appears to be because of the skill of many of the drivers and the lack of mods that can be made. The enduro class is an entry level class that can be be done on the cheap. Building a godd hobby stock car can be financially out of reach for many people. A good enduro car can be built well under $1000.

I raced my 2001 crown vic for two years in New Mexico and still would be if they did not close down the track. Our average raqce night consisted of one to two heats of 10 laps and then a 20 lap A and B main. If any car was in a bad accident or spun we had the yellow come out just as any other class. We usually had between 30 to 45 cars per night show up. As a class we put more money and fans in the seats than the other class. Due to bad management the track run by the indians was shut down and the equipment sold off. Here is a link to the general rules of the class.

http://www.westcoastenduro.org/rules.html



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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugRod
I think you have a complete mis-understanding the Enduro or cruiser class in dirt track racing
Actually I don't have a complete mis-understanding thank you. I've built a few engines for local Enduro racers so I know how serious some of them can be.

My reference was so that others can zero in on what I believe the original poster was getting at. When you hear the word "derby" thrown into the conversation you immediately think demo derby as opposed to any actual racing.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 05:52 PM
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dman16, I don't know if your organization adheres to the rules posted by BugRod or not, but there are a couple in there that you may want to pay attention to...to wit...

"The intent of the engine rule is to keep it stock with no more than 9:1 compression"

"compression test not to exceed 180# per cylinder."

" Must have a minimum of seventeen (17) inches of manifold vacuum @ 1000 rpm."

"NO STROKER MOTORS. Stock intake and exhaust manifolds only."
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:17 PM
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www.kitsapdestructionderby.com/ has info for you guys. rules, picture of cars and the track or go to you tube and search kitsap destruction derby. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44SnOfmtB_Y thats a link to a good video of what ill be doing. ill maybe do 10 laps at most and run the car for a whole 10 minutes tops per race.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2009, 07:29 PM
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Looks like fun. I'll give you my take on it just from watching the figure 8 video.

From a driveline standpoint, I'd start with the biggest motor I could bolt in the car. As you come around the outside tire and gun it across the middle of the track to the next inside tire, you'll need all the low end torque the motor can muster and that means starting with lots of cubic inches and using a short cam to make max grunt. That's a very short track drag race and I don't see the advantage of a high-winding motor in which you have to use a lot of cam that kills low end torque.

I might be thinkin' starting with a 440 and using a cam matched to the static compression ratio (based on the available fuel) that will nose over at around 5000 rpm's and make max torque around 3500-4000. I'd use a 727 auto trans with a 3000-3500 stall converter and a rear gear that would allow max revs at the inside tire on the next corner. Finding out the mph these faster cars are going when getting to the next inside tire will allow you to do some back-figuring and choosing the right gear and tire size. That would be my low-buck approach. If I had some extra money to throw at the car, I'd be thinkin' stroker crank for even more grunt.

I see in the rules that you can run 2-wheel brakes. I wouldn't do it. You're gonna need all the braking power you can muster to avoid other cars in the middle of the "X". You can't win if you can't finish.

I know very little about circle track setups, but with the little I do know, I'd be setting the front end camber at several degrees negative on each side and maybe extending the upper control attachment point at the spindle up some to improve camber gain on bump. I've seen where these extensions are commercially available. At the end of each heat, I'd be measuring the temperature of the tire tread from one side of the tread to the other. This will tell you where to set the camber and tire pressure. I used to do that when my son was racing go-karts on a road track and we had the car to the point that it would corner like it was on rails.

I might be all wet, but that's just my take on it from watching the video.

Last edited by techinspector1; 08-24-2009 at 07:37 PM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 07:32 PM
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the 400 is the biggest i have to put in the car. so what parts should i put in the motor to make it reliable and strong? i kno this motor and chevy motors have the same firing order could i drop in a crank from a chevy into this mopar for a longer stroke for less rod angle to get side load off the pistons? i have a crank from a big block chevy laying around 3.76 inch stroke out of a 427.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 07:35 PM
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.........No.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman16
the 400 is the biggest i have to put in the car. so what parts should i put in the motor to make it reliable and strong? i kno this motor and chevy motors have the same firing order could i drop in a crank from a chevy into this mopar for a longer stroke for less rod angle to get side load off the pistons? i have a crank from a big block chevy laying around 3.76 inch stroke out of a 427.
Just the fact that you would post this question shows that you don't have a clue . Put a tune-up on the motor and leave it alone, dual exhaust, and 4.56+ gears if you can get someone to do it for you.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2009, 09:35 PM
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why wouldnt it work? ill cut exhaust or put stacks on it not sure yet?
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