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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2011, 04:22 PM
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$14,000 paint job?????????????

Youve got to be SH-----g me,thats about a $800.00 Johnny and Mack at the railroad track (Miami) paint job... for that kind of money,it should have been stripped to bare metal, front and rear fascias taken off,panels painted,and re-installed,i personally would NOT try to be nice to the owner of that shop,i would DEMAND what i paid for,OR a refund of ALL the money, but,a phone call from a lawyer,might be the way to go. For that kind of money,YOU SHOULD HAVE been watching their work,and if the owner said "no customers allowed" i would have found another place to have the paint job done. BUDDY,YOU GOT SCREWED !!! That owner is NO FRIEND OF YOURS !!!

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Old 05-17-2011, 04:45 PM
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I'm with Boat Bob,, I would go to this guys shop, show him what the problem is, TELL HIM,,, NOT ASK what he intends to do to make it right, if his answer isn't anywhere close to saying they will COMPLETELY redo the car the way a 14K $ paint job should be,, and if he even studders about not wanting to completely redo the car, My very next stop would be the lawyers office,, and sue the crap outta this guy,, maybe a threating letter from a lawyer, or some stiffly worded letters , will influnce him to give you your money back,, other wise take it to court,, and sue him for your lawyers wages also,,,,
I actually wouldn't want him touching the car again,if it was mine,, if he can't do any better than that,
try getting your money back , and the only way to do that is to sue the crap outta him,, then keep a close eye on who ever does the work,, and take pictures of the work, to make sure they are doing it the right way,,
God I hate people like this,, make ya wanna burn em to the ground,,,,,
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:38 PM
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Let's all get back down to earth here. You can't say that he got screwed YET. The description of the work is vague first off secondly $14K in Elkins Ark isn't the same $14K in Berkeley CA. I'll tell you right now $14K in Berkeley isn't going to get you very far with a 45 year old car with rust here and there and body work on every square inch which is exactly what your average 45 year old car needs. With pulling glass and buying repro patch panels and removing and reinstalling all the mouldings with broken bolts and crap $14K goes REAL fast! A basic paint job where I work on a late model car starts at about $5000 this is with NO bodywork.

We have no idea what work was done on this car or what agreements were made with the customer. So don't beat up the shop just yet.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 05-17-2011 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 05-17-2011, 11:55 PM
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Looks like impact damage from door mis-alignment and pinching the fender and the sag let it hit the rocker..

..the first car should have had the bumper loosened for space or "roped" for paint..

Why not post complete pictures of both cars just for fun?
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Old 05-18-2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
You can't say that he got screwed YET. $14K in Elkins Ark isn't the same $14K in Berkeley CA. I'll tell you right now $14K in Berkeley isn't going to get you very far with a 45 year old car with rust here and there and body work on every square inch which is exactly what your average 45 year old car needs. With pulling glass and buying repro patch panels and removing and reinstalling all the mouldings with broken bolts and crap $14K goes REAL fast! A basic paint job where I work on a late model car starts at about $5000 this is with NO bodywork.

We have no idea what work was done on this car or what agreements were made with the customer. So don't beat up the shop just yet.

Brian
Brian<< I can't think of a better word to discribe this,,but " SCREWED" seems pretty close I would say ,
14 thousand dollars is a hell of a LOT of money for a paint job no matter where you live,,
I Know you are a VERY experenced auto body tech, and know your trade very well, But having these kind of problems after just 3 weeks?? what is this car going to look like in 3 months or 3 years??? bare *** necked , probably,, cause all that expensive paint popped off,,
Macco could have done better than that,,,,,
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Rat
Brian<< I can't think of a better word to discribe this,,but " SCREWED" seems pretty close I would say ,
14 thousand dollars is a hell of a LOT of money for a paint job no matter where you live,,
I Know you are a VERY experenced auto body tech, and know your trade very well, But having these kind of problems after just 3 weeks?? what is this car going to look like in 3 months or 3 years??? bare *** necked , probably,, cause all that expensive paint popped off,,
Macco could have done better than that,,,,,
You're right, the only reason I said what I did is that we honestly don't know what this car looked like. It may have been a $20K strip and body and paint and they cut corners didn't strip because the owner didn't want to. We just don't know, the description of the job and car is all so vague.

He may have gotten a total screwing, but honestly we don't know.

He goes in and they look over the car and tell him it's going to be $20K to do it and he says "Can you do it for cheaper"? and the shop explains that it really needs to be stripped and with all the seen and probably unseen work it will be $20K minimum. They says "How about we don't strip it, how much then"? I am not saying this is what happen, any way you look at it the shop made a bad business decision.

It all comes down to the customers expectations AND understanding of those expectations related to the job. I am not saying he is wrong, not by a hundred miles. All I am saying is we don't know what the deal was that was made. We honestly don't know. It could have in bold letters across the RO "Stripping recommended, customer denied, no warranty". It could literally say that on the repair order, we don't know!

When there is an unknown as huge as this, we can't say he "got screwed".
There are a lot of shops out there that don't do good business. They don't make things clear, they don't CLEARLY understand the customers expectations and make sure that the customer understands the repairs. I honestly don't think the shop meant to "screw" him,but he is most certainly "screwed". I seriously doubt that when the guy brings the car back and they see that paint falling off that they the shop owner thinks "Tough chit, I could care less". No, his stomach is likely flipping and he wants to run and go vomit. I will give them the benefit of a doubt.

We don't do completes where I work, VERY rarely do to vandalism or rare restoration type paint job. The other day a customer came for an estimate for one and after evaluating what she was after we sent her to the Macco in town. She had a list of prices on a sheet of paper one of them being Earl Schib for $1000. This is the type of pricing around here, a GRAND for an Earl Schib job. We all said quickly "Naaa don't go to there" sort of thing without making a big deal, but her eyes got as big as saucers and she got all defensive like we were insulting HER for suggesting them or we were just didn't like them personally or something like we were jerks for saying such a thing. It was really odd, we all got the message and didn't say another word. There was no winning with her,you couldn't convince her, in her eyes I could see immediately that she was convinced we were the bad guys.

So, we have this Maaco in town, I like the owner, he's a nice guy. We trade work back and forth with us doing his frame work and sending the complete paints of customers that we understand he would meet their expectations to him.

I have often wondered, how does he set their expectations? I have been wanting to ask him, we have had lunches and beers together and while chatting about baseball and what not I have been wanting to ask him this. You know it's part of the Maaco business training. I mean, come on now, there are very few customers that we have that would accept Maacos work, VERY few. When I see what our customers expect, the quality work they expect there is no way the car would ever leave Maaco without going straight to court! Yet there are MANY customers who go there like that lady and Earl Schib who don't have a clue at the difference between shops.

They MUST be "create" the expectations for the customer before they see their car painted. Because if they expected what our customers expect they would be in deep poo poo.


Brian
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:53 AM
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I completely agree with what you just posted,, no one here KNOWS for sure what exactly transpired between the owner and the shop,,
I do think that the owner probably should have kept a closer watch on how and what the shop was doing, but alot of owners don't know exactly what to look for or understand the process of a job like this entails,, there are LOTS of short cuts that can be taken , and this looks like one of those jobs ( To me anyway) and the results show that,, perhaps the owner thought they were doing a great job ,,,,,, untill it started falling apart almost immedately,,
That caulk job really shows how shabby their work must be,, even if it is in a place that isn't easy to see,, especally on a 14K $ paint job,
I can see from your posts Brian,, that you are a great customer relations person,, you see both sides of the story quickly, but thats what you get the big bucks for right???

This could have a interesting outcome,, I can guarantee you if it was my car ,, I would be getting some answers soon,, this just isn't right,, but thats just my opinion,,
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Old 05-18-2011, 10:38 AM
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at 14k in ark he got screwed to the wall . explain to me why there is that much mill thickness on an edge.
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:29 AM
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1. He isn't in ARK, He's in West Virgina and I have no idea of the hourly wage there.

2. Because they didn't strip it.

Brian
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
1. He isn't in ARK, He's in West Virgina and I have no idea of the hourly wage there.

2. Because they didn't strip it.

Brian
doesn't really matter where he is,, the shaft has been inserted
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2011, 01:42 PM
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However, we can't see the rest of the car! These few chips may be the only bad spots on an otherwise nice looking car. There are LOTS of things to consider here. I would hate for the original poster to feel only defeat here, to feel like he has been shamed when it may not be that at all. And most certainly it may not mean that $14K was flushed down the drain and he has start all over.

We don't know the true expectations of the OP. If these chips are brush touched and detailed a little can he go down the street with a smile on his face enjoying his classic Camaro? That is the question that has not been answered.

Brian
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:06 PM
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at 14 grand there was plenty of room to strip it. you can explain it away if you want but the money was there to do it right.
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Old 05-18-2011, 03:41 PM
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2 sides to every story. hard to make a judgement here based on only a few pics. 14g in my area would be a damn near perfect job (depending on sheetmetal work). baremetal to finish. labor rate is higher in WV..i would say around 60 maybe. if it was a collision shop, it could be higher.

my question is how did these places get chipped if they werent done by you, aligning the car? Did you accept delivery of the car with these chips already on it? Agreed the seam seal job on that piece is nasty..looks as if it wasn't taken off, just seam sealed and painted.

Really not enough information here. And for those who say he should demand his money back, aint gonna happen. As long as he was writing checks based on the hours, he was accepting the work being done, and he took delivery of the car. Been through this before, car is still sitting in the back racking up storage fees.

Not trying to be negative here....i'd like to know more info about it and see more pics.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2011, 03:57 PM
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First off paint does not just fall off edges by itself, it needs help to chip off like we are seeing. Dont know what type of primer was used, but some brands are very porious and will chip extremly easy. Clearly something is not adding up here, yet everyone has no problem "blaming" the shop. Martin is right on here, and I agree $14K does not go far, when you add in all materials and then the hourly rate (what is it??). We dont know what condition this car was in, nor have we seen pics of the entire car.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:16 PM
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you guys in US seem to be paying alot for restoration jobs, i have only done two full restorations in 3 years of owning my own paint shop. over here your getting a vehile restored for 3-6k in , i done a mini, which is a small car for 4400, which included sand blasting, new panel fitting, resandblasting, fully etch primed, filler work, 2k primed, base followed by clear. inside, outside fully restored. 100 hours labour, 250 consumables, 400 paints, 250 blasting, how can yous charge so much? i get 35 labour rate.
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