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Help me pick- Electronic Ignition Coil

17K views 27 replies 7 participants last post by  red65mustang 
#1 ·
Hi all, just after a bit of advice in regards to choosing a Coil for my engine.

Firstly this is for an Australian 1982 V8 Cleveland engine.

Using the Standard Ford Motorcraft Bosch 12 V Electronic Ignition Distributor and ignition system.

I have been using the Normal Bosch 12V electronic Ignition Coil, but are wondering if there are any benefits in going up to a MSD Blaster 2 (12 Electronic Ignition Model) or a Malloy 12 V Electronic Ignition Coil.

Both these coils boast that they have a stronger more powerful spark over standard coils.

While there's no doubt that this is the case when comparing Points Ignition coils from a standard coils to a performance ones, but when your dealing with Electronic Ignition, I have always been lead to believe that in standard from they had a massive spark out put, and short of going to a MSD system, that's it.

Are these MSD and Mallory coils going to offer any major benefit in a Electronic Ignition system over the normal Bosch Electronic Ignition coil?

Thanks heaps for any help or comments.

Francis.
 
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#2 ·
Coils

How much RPM is this engine turning..?? If it is in a normal type of car up to 5000-6000 RPM the stocker should be fine..When we go to High Compression ratios..high RPM's then the aftermarket ignitons come into play..

That is how I think about this..:)
 
#4 ·
Ok, done a bit of shoping around, seems I can get either a MSD Blaster 2 12V Electronic Ignition Coil or a Champion12 V electronci Ignition one for a bit less.

Everyone is telling me there would not be all that much difference in the out put of them so I should just go the cheaper one of the two.

Any thoughts?????
 
#5 ·
Blaster II chrome coil, p/n 8200...OK

NAPA IC12 black coil, OK, same coil as MSD 8200 (NOT IC12 SB)

Summit G5215, OK, same coil as MSD 8200

CarQuest 26189 black coil, OK, made with the same specs as MSD 8200.

Blaster II RED coils 8201, 8202, NO, layer shorting issues, made in Mexico, problem prone

Accel 8140, 8140C, 8145, 8145C, NO, Taiwan made, problem prone.

Mallory, I avoid.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Crane are made at Andover, oil filled, and good stuff,

Pro-Comp...Chinese masquerading as Australian, run as fast as you can away from that junk.

NOTE: With ALL oil fileld coils, it is absolutely vital that they are mounted vertical, or very close to vertical, WIRE END (NOSE) UP, AND NOT LAID ON THEIR SIDES, OR UP SIDE DOWN. Failure to do so will uncover the coils from the cooling oil inside the coil.
 
#8 ·
HI again! I have been meaning to say thanks heaps for you advice. I really enjoy learning all I can about these kind of things.

The Procomp stuff is becoming so big over here. There Dizzys are a real big seller. They are very cheap and people are seeming to prefer them over re-conditioning there original units.

Now you got me worried! I just bought an 86 Trans Am, and the guy had removed all the original HEI stuff and installed a Procomp Dizzy and Coil. There was nothing wrong with the original stuff, he was one of these guy's that if the sticker say's "go faster" he had to have it.

Are there any issues that I should be on the look out with this set up he has installed in my Trans Am?
 
#9 ·
This is a PM sent to me just after I posted info on the Pro-Comp stuff here on this board. This fellow was a brand new board member at that time, a couple of months ago, and from New Zealand.

This is his copied PM to me.

" PRO COMP"

"I have just joined from New Zealand and are glad to see you have advised a few away from the above brand.They are selling cheap in New ZEaland along with the like Pro Comp 6A box from Australia where they are made first in China, they are also doing cheap alloy heads.Some I see in Aust are going though 3 distributors before getting money back."

"I am going to be trying the Hyfire VIA and E spark soon after 10 years of very good XR700 crane use, I needed a rev limiter and wanted a Mallory Distributor."

"Keep up the good info!"

We are seeing the exact same thing happen here in the States after just a few short weeks with Peter's stuff. He also owns Sydney Speed and Marine, and doesn't have a stellar reputation at all, anywhere in the world we could find. His strongest forte seems to be to knock off other's parts and products, make them for the lowest dollar, and flood the market in hopes of putting other reputable businesses out of business and competition with him.

Peter will also make just about anyone a dealer, I would assume you as well, should you so desire. That makes for unprotected sales areas and cutthroat selling tactics from other "dealers". We have even seen his dealers sell the parts on E-bay for far less than other "dealers" are into them for.

The cheap alloy heads mentioned are the old Pro-Topline items, now made in China for Peter. I have personally seen 7 sets of the latest production runs, with dropped valve seats, all from one seller in Los Angeles, just this last weekend (he ain't a reall happy camper about Pro-Comp), along with broken full roller rockers.

Sorry, but that IS the general concensus of opinion about Pro-Comp and Peter.
 
#11 ·
Peter does seem to be very adept at taking a good product and driving it into the ground, killing it for future production, by making it into instant junk for the time he makes it. He seems to only care about profits, not the customer or products he clones.

Now, Peter did purchase most of the castings and molds for the Pro-Topline heads, but if the attitude in making them isn't on the right track, if only profits are the motivation, then, the product, and the customers will suffer from that attitude.

His track record isn't a very good one.

Sorry to nave to say that, but it is the truth, and that is the most important part of all this, but it needs to be done.
 
#14 ·
Trans Am Ignition help

Hi Ignition Man.

No sure if you remember me, but you gave me some advice awhile ago regarding coils.

I'm just after some help with getting a new distributor for my 86 5L TPI Trans Am and thought you would be the best person to talk to.

Firstly I'm located in Australia, so finding a local shop here that knows what part number is best just wont happen. Secondly Trans Am's are an exotic here. So Spare parts all have to come from the US or you have to know the part number your ordering as the spare parts books here don't list Pontiacs to look up replacement parts under. If you know the part number for anything then usually your ok, but otherwise they just don't want to offer help cross referencing.

The problem is the last owner has installed a Procomp Electronics Distributor. PN: PC - 10001_ Chev Late Model HEI. PD 1-12. website www.procompelectronics.com

This is a late model HEI style that has a separate coil (not in the Cap).

Aside that I have been told so many bad things about these units, when I pulled a lead off the cap the other day the whole rod going in to the housing cam up with it. I have chased the Australian agent for a replacement cap and while I'm at it Rotor, but no one seems to know anything about or stock anything for the 10000 series only the 6000 & 7000.

So I'm going to start looking at either finding a good original unit to fit back in or information as to what other units are worth chasing, Such as MSD or Mallory? If perhaps you might know what model or part number that is a direct replacement unit I can use to what is either in there now (which would be easiest) or the original GM HEI unit. Also would you recommend a model number for a quality coil that would also be really appreciated.

Also if you know a good place to order one that will ship worldwide that would help heaps and save me dealing with people that have no idea over here.

Thanks heaps in advance.

Francis.
 
#16 ·
I don't know who "Ignition Man" is, but I agree with him on the Pro-Comp junk.

I have heard the same type of bad stories about their electronic parts, just not worth the low cost, bringing on the frustration and hassles of trying to get Pro-Comp replacement parts, adequate tech info and refunds for their defective parts.

I was approached by the owner of Pro-Comp in person, to carry and use his parts in my hot rod shop, and after hearing those stories and seeing their parts, I declined, and remain quite happy using other better parts, from Pro-Form and other name brand manufacturers. He is his own best reason NOT to use his parts.
 
#17 ·
Francis...back to the coil question...(way over simplifying)... reality is the plug gap determines the volts needed.... with a "stock" motor, the voltage will build till there is just enough to jump the gap (.032" gap = roughly 15- 18,000volts with solid state ignition)....put a 60,000 volt coil on it....still going to jump at 15-18,000V
alot of new cars plug gaps are .050"+....they do need a 50Kv-60Kv coil

my choice for your application is the Jacob's Electronics 40Kv "Energy Coil", at 850Watt it's more than enough....and has some small design "tweeks" that others don't
(like it is an oil filled....OK to mount it laying down)

side note: (again way over simplified) "plug wires" I chuckle because they are trying to sell "less resistance per foot" as a good thing....fact is the coil will build to a slightly higher voltage before it can jump the gap with higher resistance plug wires....don't "believe" all their "hoopla"
 
#18 ·
Doc here, :pimp:

To Be less simplified..What your looking in a performance Coil is, duration of spark and current at the finished product from an Inducted source.

In a 50 KV the coil has a primary Resistance of about .6 ohms..If you do the math, thats a draw of about 20 amps at the Ignition lead..

It will have a turns ratio of about 100 to 1..for every 1 turn on the primary it will have 100 turns on the secondary..The Inductance is about 7.0 Milohenrys on the coil.

The peak Current it can deliver at the secondary load is about 200 Ma..(RED: I think you slipped a decimal point..850 watts is more than 1 horsepower, or about 60 amps draw..I think you meant 850 ma..) This is what does the work..The difference between an anemic Yellow spark and a Cold blue one.

Throw also into the mix, How much time it takes to produce the end product from the coil core to the Plug (all the paths of resistance we throw at it..Bad / High Resistance wires./Plug condition/ Plug gap..) This will SLOW down the spark along the path. All things being optimum..This coil will deliver the spark from zero to hero in about 400 micoseconds..The more TIME we throw at it..the less of a performance coil it becomes..(what good is it if it can only get the spark there 100 microseconds after it should have fired? )

In a performance coil..say 60 KV , pretty much uses the same numbers with some exceptions, The primary resistance drops to about 0.3 ohms, meaning the primary draw will about double, The secondary output will be around 300 MA, And the Duration will quicken to about 200 microseconds..The coil inductance will still be around 3 Milohenry's and the turns ratio remains at 100 to 1..So a LITTLE bit of change makes a big difference at the end product.

This is all dependent on the Winding size and material of the windings of the coil, and the permeability of the core .. these numbers will also change.

The short story is you can have a 60 KV coil, that only has a peak output of 30 ma at the finished product, and a duration that is slower than the winter thaw in Alaska..and your Car will run like crap in a can..(if at all...)

Doc :pimp:
 
#19 ·
well Doc,
wrong "kinda"....cause I was refering to output not primary .....and Jacobs no longer claims " maximum escape voltage of 40,000 volts and delivers instantaneous spark power up to 850 watts" on their site for the energy coil

but I'm glad you had me check....I was wrong (as usual)....it is now a 50Kv (went from 90 to 100 windings)
still .6 ohm/8500 ohm
190 ma current
390us duration
6.8 inductance
(which follows the info in your post which I do agree with and added a "spark V/t graph to illustrate your info)
 

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#20 ·
Doc here, :pimp:

I was referring to the output of the coil too...Which is a tap of the Secondary windings..

The reason they must have pulled that information off the site is someone probably pointed out it was in error..

850 WATTS is a healthy jolt..to make that on a secondary winding you'd need a trailer to pull it along..(exageration..) That's only 1000 watts less than your standard heat gun...

Doc :pimp:
 
#22 ·
Hi again everyone. Firstly Thank You for all the great info, this post has created.

Secondly, I wanted to ask if anyone has any info regarding the later model HEI stuff:

I wanted to look at a few ignition parts and I'm not sure what parts I should be asking for.

My Car is an 1986 Trans Am, 5L TPI set up. The last guy has installed
a Procomp Electronics Distributor. PN: PC - 10001_ Chev Late Model HEI. PD 1-12. He has also used a Procomp high powered coil. website www.PROCOMPELECTRONICS.com

This is a late model HEI style that has a separate coil (Coil is not in the Cap).

Items I wanted to get:

SBC HEI Ignition Leads - With separate coil lead.
Quality HEI Coil - Separate from cap.

With the Ignition leads. I wanted to see what brand and type you guy's believe are the better. I was hoping to get a set of either Mallory, Accell, MSD or AC Delco ones. Mallory was my first choice. I cant seem to find a part number fo any set that is suitable. If someone knows the part number or a good place to look that will ship to Australia then please let me know. I wanted the style that is long enough to go from the Distributor down the back of the motor then along the side of the engine in to each plug. The extra lead for the coil will have to be at least 12 inches long.

Secondly. I wanted to replace the coil. I'm not sure what Coil is compatible with these HEI computer interfaced Distributors with the coil mounted separately. The one that's on there is the same brand as the Distributor. It's just a high powered Transformer HEI style. I cant seem to find anyone in Australia that knows of a HEI Mallory style coil. One guy suggested a MSD Blaster II chrome coil, p/n 8200 or chasing an Accell unit. But I'm not sure what one will work best with these set up's and I don't want to use anything that might upset the computer.

And lastly, as a long term thing, I wanted to look at replacing the Distributor.
Aside that I have been told so many bad things about all procomp products, when I pulled a lead off the cap the other day the whole rod going in to the housing came up with it. I have chased the Australian agent for a replacement cap and spare Rotor, but no one seems to know anything about the 10000 series only the 6000 & 7000. SO the Australian agent for the stuff does not even carry a replacement part! I know I can glue it back in which in the short term I will do, but I wanted to look at a quality replacement unit altogether.

Let me know if anyone you offer any suggestions or part number

As always I really appreciate all help
Francis.
 
#23 ·
OK, I have sorted out some of these this myself. I have found a Cap the I can use. GM part. I have found out that all post 87 models had the coil not in the cap.

So with Spark plug wires. (Ignition Leads as there called in Aus) I was looking at Mallory. Does anyone know where they are made now? Are they still a qualitry part or cheap low quality item?
 
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