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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2007, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatM
One other thought . . . . .
Since you have SOME compression in 1 and 4, I don't think it's a stuck valve. Maybe a warped one, but I don't think stuck. It's fairly easy to separate the diagnosis of a ring problem from a valve problem. I suggest pulling the (4) plugs, and applying a little motor oil (or MMO) through the plug hole onto the piston top and cylinder wall. Then, rerun your compression test. If the compression values come pretty even, the oil has sealed up the rings and they are likely the problem. If not, I'd be looking for two or more warped valves (or. . . maybe stuck) at the outer cylinders. If the head gasket is blown, I'd expect the compression to be lower than 60-70, so my guess is either you have worn rings that aren't sealing, or warped valves. If the overheating has happened before, the valves could very well be warpped from that event.

Just one man's thoughts on the matter . . . . .
Hey pat that's what this thing is for.For his sake I hope I'm right but....you might be. Glad you mentioned that about the oil and retesting compression. I had already written a novel so I didn't add it. Anyhow we'll have a better idea when he gets out there and starts bending wrenches on it . Seeya Brian

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2007, 12:44 PM
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Hey Brian. It's impossible, of course, to knowingly diagnose a problem through text only. It's hard enough if you can look, hear and smell what's going on to diagnose many problems. My wife's Vette has spent most of the last 9 months in the driveway because I couldn't diagnose a problem. But, she's back on the road again and running great. Finally got it! Anyway, I've been a member here for quite a long time, and agree that all are here to help, and share ideas and points of view. Hopefully, we'll hear back soon about any progress that may have been made. Rust under the valve cover, and/or in the carburetor does not sound like a good thing. But, Steve is in New Hampshire, so maybe it's a result of climate and inactivity rather than something more painful.

Pat
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Old 06-08-2007, 05:42 PM
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Hey guys, I havn't done the oil test yet because i have to rent a compression gauge because the one I have won't fit. As I"m adjusting the valves, the #1 seems better, when I pull the plug, it doens't die, but idles down quite a bit....I haven't gotten to the rear yet.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:40 PM
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Well i pulled the head off tonight....the #4 valve looks (exageration) sort of like a figure "8" and the same with #1. The ones that look like this are the flat valves, not the one with the recessed circle on the inside.

Can I purchase valves individually at somewhere like autozone? Or will the valves of off a chevy 350 head fit on this? I have a few 350 heads laying around.

Thanks for everyones help.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:07 PM
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jrm123180,

I think you have two problems. One is the low compression in the two cylinders. Yes they are low but that would not let the engine REV up. Since you mentioned that on one occasion you advanced the timing and the boat came up on plane I would check out the distributor advance weights. Boats do not use vacuum to advance the timing and if these weights become rusted then the timing will not advance. This causes the engine to run hot and you have a loss of power. I am thinking you have advanced the timing enough to bring the temps down but it doesn't have enough to let the engine rev up as it should.

Good Luck
Scholman
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:13 PM
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Thanks....I put a timing gun on the boat and have it set at 8*. I was looking and I believe the temp gauge wasn't working properly that day. I had a ground wire disconeccted behind the dash and some others loose (I was screwing around under there earlier that day)...until I fixed that issue, odd things were happeneing like the horn wasn't working and when I would hit the horn switch, the gas gauge would shut off.

Since then, I did replace my thermostate which was rusted pretty bad and I have not had any issues....as a matter of fact, it seems to be runnig cooler.

I have determined that I have valve problems...by looking at them, they are in pretty rough shape, now i need to replace those two....I'm hoping its not too much money to send the head out and have the whole thing done professinaly...i it is, I'm just going to replace the bad valves myself.
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:15 AM
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Around here to get a head reworked is 80 to 100$$ plus parts. which is not really that bad. Now how do the cylinders look???Brian
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:39 AM
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stuck valves

i would remove the rockers on 1 and 4 spray wd40 on the valves of 1 and 4 like threw the spring coils then use a hamer(handel end and tap the valves, you may not get full movement at first but resevere . when you get full movement re inst rockers start and like the marine chap sead sqirt oil down the card use a sqirt can, when you get heavey smoke that shoul cure the problem if it is a stuck valve
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Old 06-10-2007, 02:43 PM
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I removed the #1 & #2(good) valve the compare them....the #2 sits fine in #1 and thatvalve itself IS warped. I'm going to go and get 2 new ones to replace #1&4. The cyls look fine, not scoring or anything.

Hope to have it back up and running y the end of the week.

THanks again...I'll keep u posted as to how it runs when I get it back in the water.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2007, 04:57 PM
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While you have the head off you would be wise to send it out to be redone. They can check it for warping and re-seat or replace the valves as needed. It will be money well invested in my opinion. Probably not more than the cost of a good gasket set and if it isnt right you will be tearing it down again.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:36 PM
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Take that head to a good machine shop and let them rebuild it. They will clean it, check it for cracks. IF it is not cracked then they can do all the machine work to put the head like new. If that head is cracked and there is a good chance that it is. All you are doing is wasting a lot of money and boating time. You won't be sorry that you fixed it right the first time.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RPM
Take that head to a good machine shop and let them rebuild it. They will clean it, check it for cracks. IF it is not cracked then they can do all the machine work to put the head like new. If that head is cracked and there is a good chance that it is. All you are doing is wasting a lot of money and boating time. You won't be sorry that you fixed it right the first time.
That's what I would do now but, I haven't always had the money to.I think he's trying to get buy as cheap as possible. Which if your not careful can actually cost you money in the end. But sometimes you can get by. Especially if he gets it running and doesn't push the ole engine to hard he might get a couple of years out of it. My question is what was the root cause of this failure?? I can't remember if this is a interference engine??Did the valves stick and when he went to crank it the first time this season they bent?? Or did he overheat it enough last season and warp them, just seems like he would have had more wrong than just the valves and it probably would have not been able to get it up on a plane. Are there any marks on the pistons?? JRM do you know how to home/shade tree lap the valves? I would also dress the others as well. Let us know how it's going???And good luck!!! Brian
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:48 AM
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I too recommend the machine shop route. You'll likely be bucks ahead.
BUT . . . If the machine shop route is out of the question, and you are installing new valves, take a little extra time and put some lapping compound on ALL the valves, and using a lapping tool (suction cup on a stick) seat/reseat each and every valve. That way, at least you'll be sure that the valves that you are putting in won't be leaking (causing wire-cracking) from the moment you start 'er up. Also, you mentioned warpage on the valve you used to trial fit . . . . .Lapping will help to cure that, as well, if it's not too bad. IF it's bad, you need a new valve there too. After lapping, carefully clean with a good solvent, flushing out the port well. Use bluing, if you can find some, to verify that the the seat and valve are indeed contacting 360deg.

(Edit -- Brian, I just finished reading your post to the end. Funny how we seem to often think alike, at least on this thread. I think you've got some experience with hand lapping, eh??? Mine came on a TR-3. Worked well for a couple years. I think this is a Chevy II 4-banger. Not an overhead cam, so unless the chain broke, or jumped a good number of teeth, interference would not be a question.)

Pat

Last edited by PatM; 06-11-2007 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 06-11-2007, 12:30 PM
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re: help with my boat please

The machine shop could be cheaper in ther long run. If you're running someplace where the Coast Guard operates they can tow you in if you break down, unless there's a commercial slavage company in the area. (and the CG safety inspections aren't that bad, unless you're drunk or stoned)
Commercial salvage companies can easily charge $1200 (or more) to tow you and the CG can't touch you unless you're in danger. They really have a racket going.
It's your choice, a couple hundred to get your head reworked, or a couple grand to have someone tow you.
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Old 06-11-2007, 12:59 PM
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my dad had a '73 Starcraft with the 140 engine, which is the same as the 120, just bigger displacement. the 120 is 151 CI, the 140 is 181 CI, both Chevy engines. his carb never worked right and it got to the point, it would hesitate over 2k, it was a rochester 2bbl. also, those engines need 91 octane, there like 10.0:1 compression.
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