I got a test light and found there is no power to the starter. I bought a battery relocation kit from Jegs last year that came with the proper size cables. And no I did not splice the main cable.I am going to get fuse links , I just didnt want to keep toasting them until the problem is corrected.I will put them at my splices I made that I needed for the fuse links anyway.The battery has been in the trunk for 1 year and no problems til now.My wiring harness is not a mess . It is a Painless Harness and was professionally installed before I bought the car .In fact 99 percent of the car is new or restored , it is not a beater.I am not a mechanic so I figured I would get some advice on this site.And I can not believe how much I am learning , you guys are the best.And Thank you so much for your time and patience, you would probably bip slap me If I were in person right ?
At least we know the problem with no power is from the starter back to the battery. I think the problem must be the neg cable not grounding.I wonder if that is what has been draining the battery in one day. The battery is new and fully charged. The red cable is fine , I checked it on the whole run.I will be installing a remote solinoid , on your advice.All ground straps are in place with no corrosion anywhere.I have the neg cable hooked up to the seat belt bolt under the rear seat which is connected to the frame. It is a 1 foot run from the battery. No problem right? Thanks again Doc I hope I did not P--- you off with me being a dumb a-- I am learning tons.

No that is to the body.

There needs to be a ground from the battery to the body & the frame
2 separate wires

The way it is now you may not be getting a good ground because the seat belt bolt is connected to the body ..the body is connected to the frame with body mounts rubber body mounts .



Well ..no.. not really ,but if we did it would be a "love bip"we all come here to learn & share .Hands on is a excellent way to learn.



R

__________________
"SlowRide66"

"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Thanks for that. I have 2 gauge cable hooked from the battery to the seat belt bolt. Do I use the same gauge from the battery to the frame or can it be a 10 gauge wire? And actually I believe I have aluminum body mounts , so would I still need 2 ground wires

I would get a ground to the frame & one to the body too using the biggest wire {the #2}

What I always do is what I call the ground triangle I run a ground from the batt to the frame & to the motor & the body this way there is No Doubt everything is grounded.

I will go take a pix of my latest work .

Be back in a few minuets



R

__________________
"SlowRide66"

"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

OK Doc can correct me or any one else for that matter if I am wrong in doing so but this has worked for me for years

I have a batt cable going to the alternator bracket & a batt cable going to the frame then I have 10 Gage wire going from the batt to the body & then from the body to the frame again...some more.

see if these pix help you some.



R

Attached Thumbnails

       

__________________
"SlowRide66"

"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Doc here,

I have to say I'm sorry here, I have confused your post with another, where the poster was having the same set of problems, On a hacked harness, and was trying to just get it to run until he could get a Painless installed.

By re~reading the thread, I see..your Not that guy!! Sorry about that.

The Splice is a perfect location for the fuse link. It eliminates the splice (that can go bad over time) and serves an a good place to install the link..just be sure it is outside of the passenger compartment, away from rotating parts, Flammable lines, and nothing that can catch fire..Fuse links work by burning up..instead of the harness..so you want a "safe Zone" around the links.

Again, Confused the harness with the other post..Being as it's a Painless that has been in service over a year, and not a cobbled up set of wires the majority of it should be fine, except for the part that is now malfunctioning..

================================================== ===


To TEST your Battery Cable from the battery to the starter, Take a LONG piece of wire from the battery ground, run it to the area of the starter, next get your test lamp, clamp it to the wire, then touch the probe to the "B" terminal of the solenoid..IF it lights..The ground cable is bad..replace the Ground cable.

It should be a Full length run from the battery, to the area of the starter, on any handy block bolt...

Using the short run to the seat belt bolt, adds resistance, the body is insulated..(has road paint and sits on rubber mounts) this , makes for a "Poor or no" Bonding situation..

that makes resistance..
Resistance makes Heat..
heat melts things and further insulates the bond,
which makes more heat..and so on..until you no longer have a good bond..

To install a proper ground buss system, This MUST be done:

Run a properly gauged (0/0 or 0/1) Ground cable from the battery in the trunk to any handy bolt at or near the starter on the block. From that same bolt get a 4 gauge Battery cable at the parts store, that has two 3/8 ring terminals on each end and attach it there and to the Frame. Make this run as short as possible.

Next get some 10 gauge wire and ring terminals, run two wires from your bolt on the block, to the Firewall, Burnish off all the paint, grease or oil or dirt from the area, Install a sheetmetal or Self Drilling Tech screw using a star washer as well as a lock washer.. and the other 10 gauge wire to the Alternator ground lug, bracket or mount bolt and attach with star and lock washers.

• Next get some Wire Braid, (expensive! about $10 for 5 - 6 inch pieces!)Check Radio Shack for this, OR cheaper yet, get some RG 8 Coax cable, about 10 feet. Should run you about 15 cents a foot. carefully Slit the insulation from the cable with a Talaban Boarding pass (box knife) .
  
  
  
• Peel away the insulation until you just have the center dielectric and braid left, then carefully press the ends of the coax cable BRAID together like a Chinese "Finger puzzle"
  
  
  
• Slide the dielectric and center conductor out. remove it and toss it..
  
  
  
• On a work bench, Flatten the Braided shield out, use a round weight like a full paint can to roll over it.
  
  This will be your braid cable, just Cut to smaller length's as needed, and tuck the cut ends into a crimp terminal and crimp the ends on.. IF you can Solder, Tin the ends before you tuck the ends of the cable into the terminals, then Tin the barrel of the terminals, then insert the cable and crimp..Then heat the terminal and braid, feed some solder into the opposite end as the heat is being applied, let it melt and FLOW or WICK toward the heat..until the terminal barrel is filled and is smooth and shiny..that is a good joint..gray and rough is a "Cold Joint" and you'll have to start over..
  
  
  
• NEXT, install braid from the radiator support to the frame, Fenderwells to frame , hood to firewall, Doors to door posts, gas flap to body, tailgate / Trunk to body. Install a cable or Braid From the Fuel tank Ground lug where the sender, Fuel line is to the frame..burnish the frame, use star washers and sheetmetal or Tech (self Drilling screws) on the frame.
  
  
• At each point the wire is grounded, Burnish ALL the paint and grease off to bare metal. Use a proper star-washer and lock. Use sheetmetal or Tech screws where no screws are available.

It sounds like a lot of work, but after you assemble all the parts, it's only a few hours to do..and you'll end up with a system that will work reliably for many years to come..and can eliminate that from your troubleshooting list.

================================================== =====


NOW, back to your problem:

IF the test lamp Didn't light at the solenoid "B" terminal, the Positive cable is open or bad..you'll have to "Hand over Hand : the run until you find the bad spot..OR just install a new Cable. Possible trouble spots are at the terminals on Both ends..

• YOU CAN NOT splice this wire!! Don't even attempt it..
  
  
• YOU CAN add a single terminal binding post at the bad spot,
  
  
• Cut the cable, install proper size ring terminals on both ends, (you MAY have to rent a Nicopress tool to do this properly!)
  
• bolt those to the terminal binding post. If it is outside, get some Electricians PUTTY and "Pot" the terminal in to make to waterproof..Attach the terminal to the frame securely.

Connect up the battery and retest for power. It should Be "All Good".
==================================================
As far as the alternator, The Regulator may still be bad loading up the battery, just sitting over night..Do the parasitic draw test I outlined a few posts back to eliminate it..OR after the rest is fixed, just DISCONNECT the alternator wires, and let it sit an equal amount of time, (to go dead, overnight, 1, 2, days, a week ect..) then re~connect , if it starts up , the diodes ARE bad...rebuild the alternator. (kit runs about $15.00, takes about an hour to do..)
================================================== =====

EVEN though it is NEW..have the battery LOAD tested..We had a guy , bought one from NAPA, swore it was good..because it was new..took it in for a load test..

It was shot! got another one..SAME problem..after 3 or 4 weeks of troubleshooting..still swearing it was good..

took it back in..load checked it..IT was SHOT!!..got YET another..installed it..same problem..

took this one out and right back..IT was SHOT also!!!!!!

The parts guy then tested all the battery's on the shelf..THEY were all SHOT.turns out they had a bad batch! THEY had to go out and BUY him a new battery from elsewhere to get him going again!!!

NEVER trust a part BECAUSE it is new..more DEAD parts roll off the production lines than good ones in the field! Alway Double and Triple Check. And on most electrical parts, HAVE them tested before you LEAVE the store..once you walk out the door, It now is your problem..not theirs!

================================================== ======

BE sure the battery has a slow charge on it..6 to 10 hours on a CHARGER at about 10 amps.

The Solenoid will give you much better cranking performance AND deliver more power to the Car than what you have now..you Won't be sorry for installing it!

About your Ground cable towards the end of your post..I think I answered that..the Body Flexes, It is mounted on rubber feet, it is painted with road insulation, AND the seat belt anchors go through rubber grommets (traditionally) This provides resistance..that makes heat (current doing NO useful work under load) and the end user device (say, the starter) Suffers for it..

If we apply a little OHMS law and some math..assume you have a scant 2 ohms of resistance Between the starter ground AND the rear frame area via the seatbelt bolt..

AT 14.4 volts..that joint is consuming: 7.2 AMPS at 103 Watts..Doing NOTHING but making heat!

Wire has "built in" resistance PER FOOT also..

Depending on the composition of the wire, and the length of the run, Determines the GAUGE of the wire..

In Broadcasting for instance, (coax type cable) The concern there is called Velocity Factor..OR the speed at which RF can travel through the Cable as opposed to the speed of light..

This Determines the FREQUENCY per foot at which the cable is best suited given a certain length..and is measured in Decibels (Db loss/gain)..

The reason it is important is because for every 3 Db of loss you have, at 100 feet, effectively cuts the RF (transmitted power) by HALF!

On the other hand If the antenna has 3 Db of GAIN..and (in theory) have zero db loss in the cable, and 10,000 watts into the combiner and up the hose..(cable),

The ERP (Effective Radiated power) Is 20,000 watts (for FREE!) which can be read with a Field strength Meter standing at the major lobe (direction of the signal transmitted forward) of the antenna..Of course this is just in theory, the real world "throws Stuff" in the game..but the idea is the same..

IN Analog DC, it is the Resistance value of the length of the run that determines the best gauge for a certain length of run (refer to any National standard AWG chart for values)

This insures The LEAST amount of resistance from the source (Battery) to the load (Starter or other device) through the wire run..so the current is not wasted as Heat, which also melts wire.

You always want to select components that will deliver the maximum current from the source to the load for optimum performance..this applies to ANYTHING electrical.

================================================== ====

As far as a DVOM, I strongly Urge you to go buy one..

a mid priced DVOM from say , frys or RAT SHAK, like $49.00 fazools..IS just perfect for a novice..

READ the instruction book for the unit..It tells you HOW to measure circuits as well as what scales to use..

In addition to that, I almost Always give testing procedures with Scales and expected readout values should be..and If I omit something just ask! no problem to post it!

It is a great addition to your tool box, and something you should have and be able to operate in basic terms..if you are to do any work on yours or other's cars..at the very least, If you NEVER use it..you'll have learned a new skill.

Sorry about the confusion, I should have read the whole thread first..But I answer about 30 of these a day PLUS at least that in PM, Email as well as my own "Tech line.." It's easy to get lost..

No sweat about the wanting to learn..THAT is why we are here..Fire (no pun intended) Away your Electrical questions..WE will ALL try to assist you..And the ONLY dumb question was the one omitted..that let all the factory installed smoke out of the wires..

There are no Dumb questions here..(just don't ask me what your tire pressure should be on a 100 degree day at 70 mph.. )

Sorry for the long read..but I thought I'd get all your questions answered..to the best of my ability.

Doc

__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
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Doc here,

Rob,

That Is EXACTLY the way to do it..

Take two Felony Fudge Squares out of petty cash... Mmmmmm..Brownies.........

The ONLY thing I could add to that is : you forgot to burnish the PAINT off the grounding area..it is important in the future, when it gets like me..Olde and corroded...

"Well, Mr Clark..I give it a 99 rating..it has a great beat..but you can't dance to it.."
(From the Dick Clark American Bandstand show of the 50's fur you younguns that wasn't invented yet.. )

Doc

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Aftermarket Solutions
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Doc here,

Ya Bet YUR Bippy...

Besides..IF we give the right information, and you didn't bother to read it..OR didn't understand, and FAILED to ask the question...

You "Bip" slap yourself...

Of course , IF I screw up... , It's ALWAYS Rob's fault...

OR I have been baking more Felony Fudge again.. Mmmmmm...Brownies... :

The first lesson to good business Manglement<--Misspell, but I like it , so it stays..) when errors are found..Delegate responsibility..

Always ask what cornFuzzes you..it is expected..and lets us know how Or what level on which to respond (high tech Junk with math formulas and junk that applies in a Perfect world...Or Novice..test A to B..if it works ..it ain't your problem..Real world stuff...the rest you don't need to know to "git Er Done!" without confusion)

Doc

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Aftermarket Solutions
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Sorry I took so long but I ran out of ink printing all your suggestions. Thank you very much Again. I will do it all. John

I am so excited , I replaced and added grounds and she fires right up. It turns over much faster and quieter than it used to also. THANK YOU SO MUCH !!! Now I need to get fuse links back on the wires.Are there any certain brands that are better than others and what amp should I use ?I feel bad asking all these questions.If you want to know anything about building a house just ask. I am a pro at that. Thanks

Doc here,

Good Job!

Glad to hear it is fixed!

On the fuse link, just ask for a standard link for your car..the parts house should have it about 70 amp..Littlefuse makes these I think..but one is as good as another.

Doc

__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
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Yea I have a house Question...

How can I bury my Mother in law with out anyone missing or smelling her



Really the next time you get a doosy & want to throw in the towel remember how this feels to fix it your self & not have to pay $100 + a hour to some one else.

the trick is to know what you capabilities are & when to use a professional like when you need a front end alignment that is a Professionals area.

Hey how about a few Pix?



R

__________________
"SlowRide66"

"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Cant help with inlaw.
I will get some pics soon. Thanks again

well here she is just incase ...




elenor abernathy "crazy cat lady"




R

__________________
"SlowRide66"

"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

Geez shes hot , Why would you want to get rid of her , you should see mine . LOL.Thanks again for your help. I am sure a lot more people will take valuable info from all of you and Docs posts about this.