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Old 03-02-2009, 09:34 PM
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Help with Nason products

Hello to you all. Im new here, and have been searching for some answers to Nason products. I have a 69 Mach 1 428CJ Mustang that is a rust free car, but it has been painted once after the original. I have removed all the trim, rear glass, etc. I block sanded with 80 and used Evercoat glazing putty on the small ripples and dents. I have quite a few sand thru spots to bare. I was told by my local body shop supply co that I should just use Nason 421-19 2K urethane over the old paint & bare metal, then 422-48 sealer, Ful-Base 3.5, then finally 496-00 clear. I am painting the car black from being winter blue( jambs, trunk, underhood ). Is this going to work? I was thinking I needed a sealer over the old paint, maybe an epoxy? This is going to be a driver car, no where near a show car as my kids toys will probobly end up leaning on it now & then. Should I just go with a SS black? It had a lot of door dings that I filled with the polyester Evercoat, but I was thinking of maybe going with a spray polyester and blocking the car more to get that black to look great. If anyone has a step by step suggestion for me, I would greatly appreciate it.
I was a painter 12 years ago, times have changed for me, Im lost....thanks in advance.

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Old 03-02-2009, 10:08 PM
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Well, I haven't used many nason products, but have used some of there clear.
I think if you are going to use nason, you may want the 497 clear for a complete. 496 is more of a spot clear, and along with using the normal activator in it, it will set up really fast and will be fighting dry spots even shooting a panel, let alone trying to get around a complete car.
I'm kinda concerned about some of the recommendations your paint jobber gave you.
Yes I would epoxy baremetal, and especially a 30 some year car if it has original paint on it with 60's technology. You could also reduce the epoxy primer and use it as a sealer after all bodywork and blocksanding as finished, as well as useing it to seal up filler areas and cuthroughs after blocking body filler. Yes urethane primer will stick to bare metal, but really isn't the best thing to do or recommended as a direct to metal primer(urethane is somewhat porous, whereas epoxy isn't and sticks better, specially for a nice car such as that. Might be okay for the used car lot or bodyshop repairing something like a beretta on the cheap to last a few years, but on a classic 428 mustang?
Really I would think about stripping it down to metal and starting off right, if it might have questionable repairs or materials on it. And I would think about even using one of the better lines of paint on it as well. Also digging out old seam sealer and using a 2k seam sealer.
If it wasn't done recently using modern 2k products and you don't really know what everything really looks like lurking under the paint, the safest thing would be starting off fresh, even though its a bit more work. Even the cheaper lines of materials add up to a chunk of change, and you don't want to be doing it again anytime soon.
Yes, the more you can straighten with blocking, spend time going over and more time spent prepping the better with black. Really depends on what you are dealing with and how straight things are if you need a poly primer, or if urethane would be okay.

You could go with a single stage black also. Differenting opinions on what people prefer when shooting a solid black color, base clear or a singlestage urethane.
Where in the state is deerfield located?

Last edited by kenseth17; 03-02-2009 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:14 PM
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nason 2k

Quote:
Originally Posted by darz
Hello to you all. Im new here, and have been searching for some answers to Nason products. I have a 69 Mach 1 428CJ Mustang that is a rust free car, but it has been painted once after the original. I have removed all the trim, rear glass, etc. I block sanded with 80 and used Evercoat glazing putty on the small ripples and dents. I have quite a few sand thru spots to bare. I was told by my local body shop supply co that I should just use Nason 421-19 2K urethane over the old paint & bare metal, then 422-48 sealer, Ful-Base 3.5, then finally 496-00 clear. I am painting the car black from being winter blue( jambs, trunk, underhood ). Is this going to work? I was thinking I needed a sealer over the old paint, maybe an epoxy? This is going to be a driver car, no where near a show car as my kids toys will probobly end up leaning on it now & then. Should I just go with a SS black? It had a lot of door dings that I filled with the polyester Evercoat, but I was thinking of maybe going with a spray polyester and blocking the car more to get that black to look great. If anyone has a step by step suggestion for me, I would greatly appreciate it.
I was a painter 12 years ago, times have changed for me, Im lost....thanks in advance.
nason 2k is pretty good stuff i have half a gal at the shop i use it when i run out of SPI 2k more bang for the buck nothing wrong with the nason though
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:34 PM
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thanks much

Deerfield is 11 miles east of Madison.( GO PACK!! ) The old paint seems to be in great condition as far as adhesion, no cracking, or peeling. I really dont want to strip it to bare, I know I should, but I need to get this car done. There has been no major body work prior to me filling in a few small ripples from door dings. Does Nason have a good epoxy primer that I can also use as a sealer?491-35? I was almost thinking of going with the 421-40 spray filler, but wouldnt 3-4 coats of high build get me there also? I was thinking of going with a SS black as I have never shot a Bc/Cc, only SS enamels & urethanes. I have a Binks Mach 1 HVLP that I bought 10 years ago. thanks again..
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darz
Deerfield is 11 miles east of Madison.( GO PACK!! ) The old paint seems to be in great condition as far as adhesion, no cracking, or peeling. I really dont want to strip it to bare, I know I should, but I need to get this car done. There has been no major body work prior to me filling in a few small ripples from door dings. Does Nason have a good epoxy primer that I can also use as a sealer?491-35? I was almost thinking of going with the 421-40 spray filler, but wouldnt 3-4 coats of high build get me there also? I was thinking of going with a SS black as I have never shot a Bc/Cc, only SS enamels & urethanes. I have a Binks Mach 1 HVLP that I bought 10 years ago. thanks again..
dont use nason epoxy ive used it if left un coated itll deteriorate i use spi but ppg is good expencive overated spi more bang for the buck i really dont allthe brands out there when i find one that works for a fair price ill stick to it like uh epoxy
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:00 PM
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how about Martin-Senour?

Is Napa products any good?
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Old 03-03-2009, 06:18 AM
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I would use the Nason epoxy over the old paint. Then put down three coats of Nason hi-Build 2K primer. Block sand this and if it looks good seal and paint it. I really like Nason products exect the sealer kind of worries me because it is a one part non catalyzed product. I would use Dupont sealer then Nason base coat and clear coat.

Again I really like Nason's epoxy.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:19 PM
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now what?

the supply co said they dont carry the 491-35 epoxy primer sealer, instead carry the 491-17 etch http://www.pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/h...son/491-17.pdf
They claimed I can use this as a final sealer also? Is this an epoxy? I am getting frustrated with all the different materials...
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:48 PM
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From what I can see that is not an epoxy. I would not use that for a sealer. I would recommend a Dupont sealer. They are in different colors for better base coverage. The Nason store should sell Dupont also because Nason is owned by Dupont.

Here is the epoxy (I think) http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...son/491-16.pdf

Here is a sealer. http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...5858_77X0S.pdf
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:59 PM
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thanks

I think I will go with a DuPont DTM epoxy sealer then 3-4 coats Nason 2K high build surfacer, block sand, then a coat of the DTM epoxy before the Nason topcoats. That sound o.k.? thanks again.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:15 PM
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sealer

if moneys tight ,like i thought you said ,heres what i do every day , i dont use sealer,instead i use my old nason base coat,i have so many cans of it ill never run out. i only use sealer for the high dollar jobs and then its only tintable urathane i use SPI but any will do ,SPI works just as well as the ones that cost twice as much . dont worry so much, a good paint job is all in the prep work painting is easy if you get a run ,no problem sand and buff. just put two coats of your old base then use your chroma ,two to three coats. itll work ,dont sweat it mistakes are good,ethier way you learn,its a win win.
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:32 PM
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If they recommended you use that etch for a sealer, I would start looking for another supplier to talk to.
Quote:
I think I will go with a DuPont DTM epoxy sealer then 3-4 coats Nason 2K high build surfacer, block sand, then a coat of the DTM epoxy before the Nason topcoats. That sound o.k.? thanks again.
Well that sounds okay to me, but not having used the direct to metal epoxy sealer, can't say for sure. As long as its a 2k epoxy, and the tech sheet for it recommend it for baremetal areas and sealing. You want to take a look at and read the tech sheets for any products you plan on using.
That could be used on baremetal spots, or areas you cannot sand or to take care of flash rust, but really if you have clean and sanded metal, there is no reason to really use an etch primer. It is a 1k product, and you really have to watch compatability with it, because of the acid content. Another primer would need to be used over etching primer before paint, and again you have to be sure they are compatable. And many have warnings about using etch and bodyfiller, and the compatability between the two. Do a search on this forum for etching primer, and see what peoples opinions are on it. Most don't even mess with using the stuff. Epoxy on the other hand has good compatability with many products.
I've used nason epoxy once or twice, but really can't say how good it is compared to other brands. Cars I've done usually aren't around long enough to judge.
Southern polyurethanes gets pretty good reviews for there epoxy primer as well as other products, from several members here. I haven't gotten the chance to use there primers yet, but have used there universal clear a few times, and it was on my doorstep in two days. They make some good products and the price is right, and would probably be pretty comparable pricewise with nason. Barry K of Southern Polyurethanes is a member here, you might want to shoot him a pm or give him a call, and he would be very helpfull, weather your using his products or not.Southernpolyurethanes.com
Southern Polyurethanes epoxy should work just fine with your nason products (most brands undercoats seem pretty compatable with other brands topcoats). You can get their epoxy in black, since you will be painting black, and use the same product to treat any baremetal areas, as well as seal everything prior to paint, and have one even black surface to lay you black paint on.

Last edited by kenseth17; 03-03-2009 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:44 PM
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soooooooo true soooooooo true

i spent three days on a trans am shaker hood,when i finished i blew the dust off and a chunk of bondo blew off ,i got closer and more came off then i grabbed an edge and pulled it all off, back then i thought it was like epoxy ,a jobber recomended it over bare metal. he stopped talking to me years ago but hes still in my trunk
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:49 PM
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Spi

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenseth17
If they recommended you use that etch for a sealer, I would start looking for another supplier to talk to.
Well that sounds okay to me, but not having used the direct to metal epoxy sealer, can't say for sure. As long as its a 2k epoxy, and the tech sheet for it recommend it for baremetal areas and sealing. You want to take a look at and read the tech sheets for any products you plan on using.
That could be used on baremetal spots, or areas you cannot sand or to take care of flash rust, but really if you have clean and sanded metal, there is no reason to really use an etch primer. It is a 1k product, and you really have to watch compatability with it, because of the acid content. Another primer would need to be used over etching primer before paint, and again you have to be sure they are compatable. And many have warnings about using etch and bodyfiller, and the compatability between the two. Do a search on this forum for etching primer, and see what peoples opinions are on it. Most don't even mess with using the stuff. Epoxy on the other hand has good compatability with many products.
I've used nason epoxy once or twice, but really can't say how good it is compared to other brands. Cars I've done usually aren't around long enough to judge.
Southern polyurethanes gets pretty good reviews for there epoxy primer as well as other products, from several members here. I haven't gotten the chance to use there primers yet, but have used there universal clear a few times, and it was on my doorstep in two days. They make some good products and the price is right, and would probably be pretty comparable pricewise with nason. Barry K of Southern Polyurethanes is a member here, you might want to shoot him a pm or give him a call, and he would be very helpfull, weather your using his products or not.Southernpolyurethanes.com
Southern Polyurethanes epoxy should work just fine with your nason products (most brands undercoats seem pretty compatable with other brands topcoats). You can get their epoxy in black, since you will be painting black, and use the same product to treat any baremetal areas, as well as seal everything prior to paint, and have one even black surface to lay you black paint on.
i think SPI put a hit out on me , seriously its all good stuff i use it all. just dont get him started on rust cures
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:58 PM
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I will just use SPI products

I will order the gallon of spi epoxy, and Im thinking of using their 2k Turbo surfacer also, money is not a real big issue, it is but.....How much surfacer to do the entire outside and jambs under hood & trunk? Is it 5 qts mixed? Do you use their base & clears too? I have enough time invested in this job, I dont want any surprises, so I think I will go with a better product than Nason ( goodbye tax return )....Thanks for the relplys also you guys, much appreciated.
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