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Old 05-25-2011, 09:53 PM
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Help Needed

I Put Some Info On A 355 An 406 To Have Someone To Do A Dyno Sym On I Cant Seem To Get Anyone To Do Them Can Anyone Help There Under Desktop Dyno Help All The Info Is Close To The Bottom Of The Page The Cam Brands An Part Numbers Are At The Bottom Of The Page All Info Is On Page 1 Any Help Would Be Great Thanks Chris

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Old 05-25-2011, 11:13 PM
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Patience is a virtue my child. You asked me to do it for you on PM, so I've been working on it for the last 2 1/2 hours. I found that no matter what cam I used on the 355, I could not get the hp peak down to 7000. It wanted to max out at just under 8000. Using a shorter cam only made the cylinder pressure go off the charts. My conclusion: the heads are too big for a 355 to max out at 7000. I suspect smaller ports would increase velocity and pack the cylinders better at less than redline and might make the motor faster than the sewer pipe heads. I like to refer to it as "area under curve". In other words, if the motor is pullin' harder at 4000, 5000 and 6000, then it is probably gonna be faster than a motor that makes more peak power but less on the way up. At any rate, since I couldn't maximize the 355, I started on the 406. Now, here, we have a motor. The heads are just the right size, but the cam you want to run is too big. Use the smaller cam that you were going to use in the 355. Looks like a marriage made in heaven, although cylinder pressure may require the block/heads to be o-ringed if you plan to keep head gaskets in the motor.
406 small block Chevy, 6.000" rods
15:1 static compression ratio
methanol fuel
sts18spx Brodix heads, 254cc intake runners, 2.14"/1.60" valves
Brodix HV1800 single plane intake
950 carb
****large diameter, stepped-tube race headers****
Lunati 50169 solid roller cam, installed advanced 2 degrees.
Timing at 2* advanced....IO 20, IC 48, EO 62, EC 10
Valve lift 0.606"/0.585"
Installed intake centerline 104*
Installed exhaust centerline 116*
Lobe separation angle 110*
RPM HP TQ
3000 318 556
3500 393 590
4000 474 623
4500 557 650
5000 625 657
5500 675 644
6000 720 631
6500 751 606
7000 752 565
7500 746 523
8000 717 471
Peak volumetric efficiency 112.4% @5500 (406 thinks it is a 456)
Peak BMEP 243.4 @5000
Both torque and hp curves on the chart are just beautiful. I wish there was a way to copy and paste them, but I have tried every which way to do it and no-go.

Last edited by techinspector1; 05-25-2011 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Patience is a virtue my child. You asked me to do it for you on PM, so I've been working on it for the last 2 1/2 hours. I found that no matter what cam I used on the 355, I could not get the hp peak down to 7000. It wanted to max out at just under 8000. Using a shorter cam only made the cylinder pressure go off the charts. My conclusion: the heads are too big for a 355 to max out at 7000. I suspect smaller ports would increase velocity and pack the cylinders better at less than redline and might make the motor faster than the sewer pipe heads. I like to refer to it as "area under curve". In other words, if the motor is pullin' harder at 4000, 5000 and 6000, then it is probably gonna be faster than a motor that makes more peak power but less on the way up. At any rate, since I couldn't maximize the 355, I started on the 406. Now, here, we have a motor. The heads are just the right size, but the cam you want to run is too big. Use the smaller cam that you were going to use in the 355. Looks like a marriage made in heaven, although cylinder pressure may require the block/heads to be o-ringed if you plan to keep head gaskets in the motor.
406 small block Chevy, 6.000" rods
15:1 static compression ratio
methanol fuel
sts18spx Brodix heads, 254cc intake runners, 2.14"/1.60" valves
Brodix HV1800 single plane intake
950 carb
****large diameter, stepped-tube race headers****
Lunati 50169 solid roller cam, installed advanced 2 degrees.
Timing at 2* advanced....IO 20, IC 48, EO 62, EC 10
Valve lift 0.606"/0.585"
Installed intake centerline 104*
Installed exhaust centerline 116*
Lobe separation angle 110*
RPM HP TQ
3000 318 556
3500 393 590
4000 474 623
4500 557 650
5000 625 657
5500 675 644
6000 720 631
6500 751 606
7000 752 565
7500 746 523
8000 717 471
Peak volumetric efficiency 112.4% @5500 (406 thinks it is a 456)
Peak BMEP 243.4 @5000
Both torque and hp curves on the chart are just beautiful. I wish there was a way to copy and paste them, but I have tried every which way to do it and no-go.
your right an thanks very much for your help what heads would be a better match with the cam for the 355 an would you do the sim for it i will have a lot more patience this time thanks again chris
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Old 05-26-2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEVY760
your right an thanks very much for your help what heads would be a better match with the cam for the 355 an would you do the sim for it i will have a lot more patience this time thanks again chris
If I don't have it up in a couple days, hit me with a PM.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:01 PM
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Since you said the motor could be turned to 8K, I used the same parts as in the 406 build. They work great at more rpm because you have a smaller motor with the 355. Here you go...
RPM HP TQ
3000 271 474
3500 340 510
4000 419 550
4500 501 585
5000 373 602
5500 633 604
6000 681 596
6500 724 585
7000 749 562
7500 767 537
8000 760 499
Peak volumetric efficiency 117.5% @6000
Peak BMEP 256.6 @5500
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:42 PM
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Here's another build that the OP requested....
406 with AFR 195 heads, 6" rods, 11.5:1 static compression ratio, race headers, Edelbrock 7101 RPM intake, 1050 carb and Howards roller hydraulic cam and lifters on race gasoline. Cam is 252/258 @0.050", 0.650"/0.650", intake centerline 106, exhaust centerline 111, lobe separation angle 108.5, 38 degrees overlap. Timing numbers are 20-52-60-18.
RPM HP TQ
2000 138 363
2500 202 425
3000 260 455
3500 327 491
4000 402 528
4500 482 562
5000 555 583
5500 598 571
6000 631 552
6500 645 521
7000 641 481
7500 631 442
Peak volumetric efficiency 107.1% @5500 (406 thinks it's a 435).
Peak BMEP 216.0 @5000
To realize the full potential of the cam, I might fit a rev kit into the lifter valley. This motor actually needs a solid roller cam.

Here's a Victor Jr. for comparison, all else the same....
RPM HP TQ
2000 123 324
2500 199 418
3000 252 441
3500 317 475
4000 390 513
4500 469 547
5000 541 568
5500 593 566
6000 632 553
6500 658 531
7000 659 494
7500 650 455
8000 617 405
Peak volumetric efficiency 106.8% @6000
Peak BMEP 210.6 @5000
Notice that the single plane intake fails to make more hp or torque until the revs exceed 6000. This is what I keep trying to get you fellows to understand. If you are applying more force to the tires all the way from converter stall to 6000, then the last 1000 or 1500 rpm's with a single plane intake are not going to make up for what you lost on the way up. Need power idle to 6000, use a large volume dual-plane intake such as the Edelbrock 7101. Need power 6000 and up, use a single plane such as the Victor Jr. Need power idle to 4500 for hauling grandma back and forth to bingo and for fuel efficiency, use a stock type intake manifold with a Quadrajet bolted onto stock heads. That's what they were designed for at the factory.
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Old 06-04-2011, 05:52 AM
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Good stuff Tech.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Here's another build that the OP requested....
406 with AFR 195 heads, 6" rods, 11.5:1 static compression ratio, race headers, Edelbrock 7101 RPM intake, 1050 carb and Howards roller hydraulic cam and lifters on race gasoline. Cam is 252/258 @0.050", 0.650"/0.650", intake centerline 106, exhaust centerline 111, lobe separation angle 108.5, 38 degrees overlap. Timing numbers are 20-52-60-18.
RPM HP TQ
2000 138 363
2500 202 425
3000 260 455
3500 327 491
4000 402 528
4500 482 562
5000 555 583
5500 598 571
6000 631 552
6500 645 521
7000 641 481
7500 631 442
Peak volumetric efficiency 107.1% @5500 (406 thinks it's a 435).
Peak BMEP 216.0 @5000
To realize the full potential of the cam, I might fit a rev kit into the lifter valley. This motor actually needs a solid roller cam.

Here's a Victor Jr. for comparison, all else the same....
RPM HP TQ
2000 123 324
2500 199 418
3000 252 441
3500 317 475
4000 390 513
4500 469 547
5000 541 568
5500 593 566
6000 632 553
6500 658 531
7000 659 494
7500 650 455
8000 617 405
Peak volumetric efficiency 106.8% @6000
Peak BMEP 210.6 @5000
Notice that the single plane intake fails to make more hp or torque until the revs exceed 6000. This is what I keep trying to get you fellows to understand. If you are applying more force to the tires all the way from converter stall to 6000, then the last 1000 or 1500 rpm's with a single plane intake are not going to make up for what you lost on the way up. Need power idle to 6000, use a large volume dual-plane intake such as the Edelbrock 7101. Need power 6000 and up, use a single plane such as the Victor Jr. Need power idle to 4500 for hauling grandma back and forth to bingo and for fuel efficiency, use a stock type intake manifold with a Quadrajet bolted onto stock heads. That's what they were designed for at the factory.

WELL I GOT A CHALLANGE FOR YA INSTEAD OF USING A SOLID ROLLER HOW ABOUT DOING A 406 WITH THE 227 AFR HEADS WITH A HYD ROLLER FROM ONE OF THE CAM COMPANYS MAKING 700 HP AN MAKE AT LEAST 600 IN TQ OR BETTER USING METHANOL 17.1 COMPRESSION MOTOR RPM RANGE IS 3500--8000 WHAT DO YA SAY SIR
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:20 PM
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IM BUILDING A NEW MOTOR AN WAS IF I COULD GET SOMEONE TO DYNO SIM IT FOR ME--THANKS JAMES


588 CI TALL DECK
AFR INTAKE 5500
16-1 COMP--METHANOL
4.560 BORE
4.500 STROKE
6.800 RODS
LUNATI CAM PART 50222
RPM 4200-7800
LOBE SEP 110
ICL 108
ECL NOT SURE JUST WANT IT TO CARRY OUT TO 8000
TIMING 30-66/74-30
DUR@0.50 276/284
LIFT 722/722
HEADS AFR 357
INTAKE
.200--167
.300--242
.400--307
.500--354
.600--393
.700--415
.800--425
EXHAUST
.200--142
.300--193
.400--244
.500--278
.600--310
.700--321
.800--327
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