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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2006, 09:58 PM
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Thanks for the reponses. Ok I will give my technique some practice again tomorrow. With a gravity feed gun, do you still try to keep the nozzle perpendicular to the surface then doing flat top surfaces like a hood? ie. tiling the gun way over.


Here are some pictures that give you an idea of the kind of mess I am making.

I decided to work with the hood since it was prepped and everything. It looks like I will be sanding the paint off/scuffing it again after a few days of drying though. Man am I getting tired of hand sanding.



I tried to get close-ups in light that will show the defective nastiness of it all. As you can see im still getting some nasty orange peel... either that or it's from that thick overspray dust. Notice how the front lip of the hood looks so much better than the rest of it. It actually went on smoothe and almost doesnt have any orange peel to it. Hmm.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2006, 09:58 PM
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2006, 10:09 PM
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Yes, perpendicular. Use a test panel. Maybye a little more air. Slower application and good light. With my eyes I need all the light I can get. You want it to lay out just at the point you want it to look. If you are using the right reducer and the right distance from the paint surface you are on the right track.A/E will settle down during the drying time. Cheers!!!
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Old 07-10-2006, 05:01 AM
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With all of these problems you are having, I sure hope you have been using a practice panel, and will have enough paint for the job when you get it fiured out.

I am not a professional painter, but wanted to mention a couple of things that may help. I know about your regulator being at the compressor. That needs to be fixed, as the gun is where the pressure is important. Also wondered about the compressor itself. Are you sure that you are not running out of air, as is the compressor keeping the pressure up as you spray? The coverage issue is technique, as far as overlapping the passes. Your spray pattern will have what some refer to as a "sweet spot" where the paint gets the good coverage. The rest of the pattern has the paint "thinned out", meaning that it is basically fogged on. Your overlap should make up for the fogging, so it is all covered the same way, and not striped. You might also try mixing a small batch, a couple of ounces will do, that is reduced more than the tech sheet says. As little as 5% or 10% may help your problem. It could increase the chances of runs, but allow it to flow together better. You can also try different gun distances. Each paint gun will have different needs to perform at it's best capabilities. Some need to be closer or further away from the surface to get the proper results because of the way it works.

Just some suggestions.

Aaron
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2006, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adtkart
With all of these problems you are having, I sure hope you have been using a practice panel, and will have enough paint for the job when you get it fiured out.

I am not a professional painter, but wanted to mention a couple of things that may help. I know about your regulator being at the compressor. That needs to be fixed, as the gun is where the pressure is important. Also wondered about the compressor itself. Are you sure that you are not running out of air, as is the compressor keeping the pressure up as you spray? The coverage issue is technique, as far as overlapping the passes. Your spray pattern will have what some refer to as a "sweet spot" where the paint gets the good coverage. The rest of the pattern has the paint "thinned out", meaning that it is basically fogged on. Your overlap should make up for the fogging, so it is all covered the same way, and not striped. You might also try mixing a small batch, a couple of ounces will do, that is reduced more than the tech sheet says. As little as 5% or 10% may help your problem. It could increase the chances of runs, but allow it to flow together better. You can also try different gun distances. Each paint gun will have different needs to perform at it's best capabilities. Some need to be closer or further away from the surface to get the proper results because of the way it works.

Just some suggestions.

Aaron
Yeah well I used the rollpan as a "Test panel" but decided that maybe it wasn't prepped right so I started shooting the hood as my "test panel" BUT I need to stop there or im going to have a lot of erasing and fixing to do. Looks like I"ll be breaking out the 600grit once the paint is dry and scuffing it up.

I have learned a lot of things though since beginning and I have a new plan of attack with improvments:

1. Before I really do any more I'm going to fix the air setup issues mentioned earlier. I need to regulate at the gun, and I also need to get a better moisutre filter because it seems im getting some garbage in through the air supply. Is a moisture filter and a regulator all I need on the hose or is there a general air-filter as well that I need?

2. I need to set up a proper ventillation system to try to control some of my overspray. I almost COMPLETELY ignored this entire factor. Can anyone give me the basic idea of a ghetto home-fan style setup? The way I took it was that you pull air across the panel you are working on? Do fans really give enough suction from behind to pull across a panel like that? Or do I have it backwards and you blow across the panel? Also what about when you hit the side of the car, what ventillation setup would you use for that?


Thanks a lot fellas.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2006, 04:13 PM
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To answer your number 2, I am by no means a professional, I am too about to tackle my first paint job, I finally found a local painter that is going to let me borrow his indoor booth...for a small fee of coarse But I talked to him about spraying at home. He said, if you do do it, cover all everything with plastic and try to create a decent seat with the plastic (wall to wall, to the floor etc). In my case I have a garage with a window in the back and a garage door in the front. Basically put in a box fan in the window sucking in fresh air with a filter on the back side, and a box fan on the floor between the garage floor. Then cover the sides of the box fan with cardboard (or whatever). Have that fan blow outside, you want fresh air from top and the exhaust exit on the ground. The better the seal around any opening in your garage the better the air flow.

Good luck!!, keep posting pics of your progress, this board is full of knowledge isn't it? ...and not to be a smart *** but someone elses pain is all of our gain right?
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Old 07-10-2006, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksunshine
To answer your number 2, I am by no means a professional, I am too about to tackle my first paint job, I finally found a local painter that is going to let me borrow his indoor booth...for a small fee of coarse But I talked to him about spraying at home. He said, if you do do it, cover all everything with plastic and try to create a decent seat with the plastic (wall to wall, to the floor etc). In my case I have a garage with a window in the back and a garage door in the front. Basically put in a box fan in the window sucking in fresh air with a filter on the back side, and a box fan on the floor between the garage floor. Then cover the sides of the box fan with cardboard (or whatever). Have that fan blow outside, you want fresh air from top and the exhaust exit on the ground. The better the seal around any opening in your garage the better the air flow.

Good luck!!, keep posting pics of your progress, this board is full of knowledge isn't it? ...and not to be a smart *** but someone elses pain is all of our gain right?
Thanks for your response. That gives me an idea for overall ventillation as I have been spraying it with the garage door open. But does that sort of entire room ventillation system just help keep fresh air flowing through the room, or will it actually help with overspray? Sounds to me like it would be a good start to setting up the room but that you would need an additional smaller scalre setup closer to your work area in order to control the painting environment. Is this correct or no?

I think that to begin with a good compressor filter will keep garbage out of my spray. Also a lot of the overspray might have been due to my spray angle... for example, i think being that the hood is flat, i was angling it to where the spray was going on uneven and caused a significant amount of overspray to settle upwards in the direction it was pointing. Atleast it would be a good start to get that down right.

I will probably get back to it in a few days after I try to collect the odds and ends I need to improve my painting environment and let my mess dry enough to sand over.

Whew, I can't believe how difficult body work/painting is. Way more than I thought I was getting myself into. BUT I cannot afford to have a pro do it so I guess I will just be learning a LOT of new things
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2006, 05:12 PM
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if you continue with the orange peel, try a retarder rather than a hardener, it may allow it to lay down rather than let it dry like that, also will make for a harder finish.
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Old 07-10-2006, 05:53 PM
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The idea of the ventilation is not to have the air to flow over the vehicle/panels as you spray. It is to remove the overspray from the air. As I have said before, I am not a professional painter, but I have done my share, and had my share of problems. Come to think of it, I think I got someone else's share of problems too. LOL

I have a fan set-up that draws the air out of the room thru filters, to prevent the overspray from getting on other things. I also filter incoming air, either thru another window or thru ceiling vents that I have set-up. The way I understand it, if you have air blowing across the panels, as you describe, you will likely have more problems, when you get the paint to lay down flat. The air flow will likely cause the paint to skim over early, and then you can get "Solvent Pop" when the paint is curing inside, from the trapped solvents.

As for the air line filter, I would place a water filter in the line atleast 25' from the compressor. If you place it too close to the compressor, you will gain nothing from that. That should be all that you need.

Aaron
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
if you continue with the orange peel, try a retarder rather than a hardener, it may allow it to lay down rather than let it dry like that, also will make for a harder finish.
Ok I may do that, it seems that over-reducing it is definitely helpign a little along with the higher air pressure, but I like that tip and may look into it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adtkart
The idea of the ventilation is not to have the air to flow over the vehicle/panels as you spray. It is to remove the overspray from the air. As I have said before, I am not a professional painter, but I have done my share, and had my share of problems. Come to think of it, I think I got someone else's share of problems too. LOL

I have a fan set-up that draws the air out of the room thru filters, to prevent the overspray from getting on other things. I also filter incoming air, either thru another window or thru ceiling vents that I have set-up. The way I understand it, if you have air blowing across the panels, as you describe, you will likely have more problems, when you get the paint to lay down flat. The air flow will likely cause the paint to skim over early, and then you can get "Solvent Pop" when the paint is curing inside, from the trapped solvents.

As for the air line filter, I would place a water filter in the line atleast 25' from the compressor. If you place it too close to the compressor, you will gain nothing from that. That should be all that you need.

Aaron
Ok this is making more sense. I guess general air ventillation is supposed to help with the lighter overspray rather than the direct stuff. But the more im thinking about it, the more i realize that the overspray is probably affected a lot by my gun direction and use. I am going to try setting up a basic household style ventillation system as you described and see if it does me some good. For some reason I had a more powerful setup in my mind when people describe pulling air from the side of panels, etc but i guess with a full room setup you are getting some movement throughout.

I looked into compressor filters and i guess it will be my next purchase. I found little disposable ones for air guns but it says to use a main wall mounted filter system also for the tank. They are so damn expensive for little disposable things. I will go to the hardware store tomorrow to look into the larger non-disposable ones. Hopefully they arent an arm and a leg. I definitely need to control that moisture though.
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Old 07-11-2006, 01:59 PM
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What temp reducer are you using, and what is the temp when you are painting? Are you mixing per the manufacture P sheet? If that is a HVLP gun, they normally require 10 psi at the cap. But to get 10 psi at the cap, you need to apply 25-40psi to the gun. (check the instructions) This is a common problem with HVLP guns, new painters, and orange peel. They set the regulator to 10 psi, thinking that is what is necessary and the paint won't atomize properly. Eliminate these things, and paint something other than the car to test. You'll be able to get this worked out, just stay with it.
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Old 07-11-2006, 02:35 PM
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Nice Chevelle Toy !

Last edited by blacksunshine; 07-11-2006 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 07-11-2006, 02:58 PM
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I'm learning a lot from this thread. Kenneth, Fleetline, and Adkart are very helpful. Nice advice guys!. Looking forward to some great results on this guys s-10 orange peely problem here.... this is how we learn, from mistakes.

I'm about to undergo my 1st paint job soon. I'll probably be in the same boat soon.

Mark
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Old 07-11-2006, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman
What temp reducer are you using, and what is the temp when you are painting? Are you mixing per the manufacture P sheet? If that is a HVLP gun, they normally require 10 psi at the cap. But to get 10 psi at the cap, you need to apply 25-40psi to the gun. (check the instructions) This is a common problem with HVLP guns, new painters, and orange peel. They set the regulator to 10 psi, thinking that is what is necessary and the paint won't atomize properly. Eliminate these things, and paint something other than the car to test. You'll be able to get this worked out, just stay with it.
I am using the medium reducer as per what the guys at the prof. paint shop recommended me. When I first shot the rollpan is was about 85-87*F which was probably a little on the warm side for painting. I am mixing as per the spec sheet, or atleast I started out that way. I have discovered that over-reducing is helping a lot with my efforts to minimize orange peel (perhaps to due temp). Another thing I realized later was that the paint does settle a bit during it's drying time and actually flattens out a bit more than I thought it would have been.

The air pressure as you mentioned was also an issue. I didn't screw up the cap pressure vs. feed pressure, but through other posts ive found that the gun im using isn't a true HVLP and requires upwards of around 50psi instead of 25-30 that I was using before. The higher pressure did make a big difference although I think increasing it too much causes a bit more overspray from what I was seeing.

Thanks for the tips i am going to get back to test shooting in a few days.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2006, 05:01 PM
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You don't need an overly expensive setup for your booth. I'll tell you what I've been doing which has been working for me. My water trap isn't a big or real expensive one. Probably could find them at sears or similar for around $35 or so. I noticed harbor freight had a fairly large one on sale normally under $50. Not sure how good of quality it is, seeing tools there are hit and miss.
I run a 25' airline off my compressor, and bring it up to the rafters and just before it reaches the water trap I let the hose hang down in a few loops. On the other side of the watertrap I plug in another airhose to the gun which has a smaller tap and regulator mounted on it. I do drain the compressor right before painting, and sometimes leave the valve cracked just a hair. I also drain the water trap of accumulated moisture frequently. I really haven't had much of a problem with moisture or contamination in the line. Once in a great while I'll get a little water from a fitting. I normally don't get any so I stopped taping up fittings and the last thing I painted and I did get a few spits of water from the fitting on the regualator.
As far as my ventilation, I bought a 3000 cfm attic fan at a store near me. It was on sale for around $80 when I bought it. It is much better at ventilating then house fans which I used for many years. I keep it on the low setting when painting. It does move the overspray out pretty good. I have a sliding window in the garage I can take out, and I fill that space with furnace filters, and exhaust by setting the attic fan under the cracked garage door, filters in front of the fan, and seal up the rest of the opening with plastic. I also plastic the walls. One thing I could really use is more light (which you can never have enough of in the first place), but since I rent here, don't really want to have an electrician come out. One thing I do have is a fairly large compressor. I painted for years with my dads 5hp 60 gal, and it did fine spraying with conventional guns, but running my 8" orbital or a sandblaster it really struggled. Its nice having a compressor that hardly blinks while painting. Mine still runs quite a bit when using air tools that really take a lot of air. If you get you orange peel figured out, and plan on doing more of it, A fairly large aircompressor with a large tank is a very good investment. And twostroke, I am sure aaron and fleet are glad to try to help if we can. I am sure they as well as I, was in the same position at one time. My first time painting was with dupont centari enamel, using a cheap gun and a small 3 hp compressor. I don't remember having much orange peel, but had huge hangers all over the place. Some days I still feel like it is still 1986 and I am picking up the gun for the first time.
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