Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/)
-   Engine (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine/)
-   -   Help on recent 383 rebuild burning oil (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/help-recent-383-rebuild-burning-oil-145116.html)

y2k600f4 09-14-2008 06:38 PM

Help on recent 383 rebuild burning oil
 
Purchased in car with about 50-100 miles on it that had a freshly professionally rebuilt 383. I drove it home 300 miles, dumped oil put new filter and quaker state 10W30 (3/08). I drove it approx 200 miles in the last 6 months (busy fixing little things); and it is burning oil some oil. Pulled a plug, it is black and wet and I get lots of gray smoke with black specks all over my bumper and garage floor; lots of black soot in tailpipes. Oil was low when changed recently, put in again quaker state 10W30. I figured the rings were not seated yet, but after talking to others they informed me they should of seated already….I thought somebody could give me some insight on this board. I have not began to trouble shoot (compression test, leak down test etc); I don’t have the tools but I am willing to get them. Any help would greatly be appreciated. The following is what I know about the engine build.

All new parts which include the following (this is all I know)

Summit Cam sum-1106
Chrom moly +100 push rods
Holley 4160 750 Carb
Procomp Aluminum Heads 190cc/64cc
Performance products 52026 crosswind intake
New Eagle bottom end; externally balanced (.040 overbore, Flat top +5cc pistons)
Felpro 1003 head gaskets
Felpro 1205 intake gasket

Thanks.

oldbogie 09-14-2008 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2k600f4
Purchased in car with about 50-100 miles on it that had a freshly professionally rebuilt 383. I drove it home 300 miles, dumped oil put new filter and quaker state 10W30 (3/08). I drove it approx 200 miles in the last 6 months (busy fixing little things); and it is burning oil some oil. Pulled a plug, it is black and wet and I get lots of gray smoke with black specks all over my bumper and garage floor; lots of black soot in tailpipes. Oil was low when changed recently, put in again quaker state 10W30. I figured the rings were not seated yet, but after talking to others they informed me they should of seated already….I thought somebody could give me some insight on this board. I have not began to trouble shoot (compression test, leak down test etc); I don’t have the tools but I am willing to get them. Any help would greatly be appreciated. The following is what I know about the engine build.

All new parts which include the following (this is all I know)

Summit Cam sum-1106
Chrom moly +100 push rods
Holley 4160 750 Carb
Procomp Aluminum Heads 190cc/64cc
Performance products 52026 crosswind intake
New Eagle bottom end; externally balanced (.040 overbore, Flat top +5cc pistons)
Felpro 1003 head gaskets
Felpro 1205 intake gasket

Thanks.

Depends a lot on the rings and if the wall honing and ring materail were matched.

Chrome rings if used need a coarse hone and still can take a few thousand miles to seat. If they were missmatched with a smooth hone used for moly rings they may never mate.

Moly rings if used need a smoother hone finish but usually break in and seat quickly. But if matched with the coarse hone wall for a chrome ring, very often the moly coat is "sanded" off and the rings will forever push oil into the combustion chamber.

Life just isn't as simple as in 1960 from a ring materail and cylinder wall finish standpoint. But, also, only driving 200 miles in 6 months isn't exactly the kind of use that seats rings of any sort. Molys on a smooth wall will do it, but for chrome you've got to get a bunch of heating and cooling cycles and maybe even a little wailing on it a few times to drive 'em home. Plus that little use isn't good when trying to break in a flat tappet cam. If you've lost a lobe and lifter you will also have oily problems on the plugs and in the exhaust.

Bogie

y2k600f4 09-14-2008 08:35 PM

Bogie,

Thanks for the informative post ! I looked at the bottom end kit and the Piston Ring Facing Material is Plasma moly (Perfect Circle Rings). I don't know how the honing was done, but I will try to find out (if I can). I am assuming the Plasma Moly should of seated already if the honing was smooth....and if it is course than I am looking at a tear down :( Thanks again and if you have any other tips on how I can perform a proper break in I would would love to hear it.

automotive breath 09-14-2008 09:01 PM

It would be a good idea to change the plugs and get a little more run time on it.
What you are seeing out coming out the exahust might be excess fuel thats not
getting burned completely. Make sure the carb. idle circuit is set correctly and
avoid prolonged idling.

automotive breath 09-14-2008 09:06 PM

I checked the specs on your cam - Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234 int./234 exh.
What RPM did you run it at during break-in? What ignition system are you
running and how much initial and total advance?

CNC BLOCKS NE 09-14-2008 09:14 PM

Sounds like maybe the block was not plate honed either !!

SDLuck 09-14-2008 11:36 PM

oil burning
 
I am thinking this is a small block chevy? This is a common problem that happens with some intakes and gasket not being matched properly.If the block has been decked or the wrong port gasket used ,there will be a vacuum leak in the valley and oil will be sucked into the intake and coat the spark plugs much like bad valve guides. Pull intake and see if the cylinder head ports are oily.

S10 Racer 09-15-2008 12:43 AM

Could be those terrible "Pro Comp" heads. Those are about the worse head you could put on a motor. Probably leaking oil around every valve guide.

y2k600f4 09-15-2008 01:21 AM

Quote:

I checked the specs on your cam - Duration at 050 inch Lift: 234 int./234 exh. What RPM did you run it at during break-in? What ignition system are yourunning and how much initial and total advance?
I kept the RPMs around 2-3K (normal operation) during the 300 mile trip and 200 or so miles of basically city driving in the last few months.

The ignition is New HEI
I'll have to look into the timing...

Quote:

I am thinking this is a small block chevy? This is a common problem that happens with some intakes and gasket not being matched properly.If the block has been decked or the wrong port gasket used ,there will be a vacuum leak in the valley and oil will be sucked into the intake and coat the spark plugs much like bad valve guides. Pull intake and see if the cylinder head ports are oily.
This is a possibility and thanks for the tip. I want to do a little more investigation before I start "tearing" into things.

Quote:

Could be those terrible "Pro Comp" heads. Those are about the worse head you could put on a motor. Probably leaking oil around every valve guide.
I am aware of the reputation of these heads :( Unfortuneately I did not choose them and it is a very well possibility this is a cause of the oil burning or intake or rings.

Quote:

It would be a good idea to change the plugs and get a little more run time on it.What you are seeing out coming out the exahust might be excess fuel thats not getting burned completely. Make sure the carb. idle circuit is set correctly andavoid prolonged idling.
I think I read on another post that a carb running rich effect oil burning ?

I guess the first thing I will do to troubleshoot is to make sure the carb is dialed in properly and than do a compression check. Thanks for the tips everyone.

lclark96 09-15-2008 01:37 PM

burnin the midnight oil..
 
It sounds like you need a leakdown tester.. then you could definately tell if the problem was in the heads or not... harbor freight tools has them if i remember correctly.. and if they have it its usually pretty cheap too.. not a bad tool to have around anyway.... so it wouldnt be a total waste...

Let us know what you find.

y2k600f4 09-15-2008 01:40 PM

Quote:

It sounds like you need a leakdown tester.. then you could definately tell if the problem was in the heads or not... harbor freight tools has them if i remember correctly.. and if they have it its usually pretty cheap too.. not a bad tool to have around anyway.... so it wouldnt be a total waste...

Let us know what you find.
Thanks, I think I will get one before this weekend they are $30. I will post results ASAP.

MyHooptie 09-15-2008 03:53 PM

No to highjack this thread but I'm experiencing oil burning from my just rebuilt 327. Rather than start a new thread I hope you don't mind me asking my questions here.

I have yet to do any tests to try to figure out the source of this problem but am hoping it may be (partially) due to the fact I still seem to be running way rich. How much of a factor could this be? I'm only seeing blue smoke from the divers side and its not constant. It does show up a little time to time during city driving but man does it seem to plume smoke when I get it onto the highways. Is this pattern any sort of an indicator???

Thanks,
Ced

automotive breath 09-15-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2k600f4
I kept the RPMs around 2-3K (normal operation) during the 300 mile trip
and 200 or so miles of basically city driving in the last few months.

The ignition is New HEI
I'll have to look into the timing..

When running a camshaft with 230+ degrees duration, combustion at low RPM
(under 3000 or so) is very poor. If the tune up isn't just right plugs foul very
easily.

How does this relate to poor ring seal?

On a good running engine, combustion completes before the exahust valve
opens or shortly there after. When the tune up is not right, combustion never
completes, this results in fuel/carbon in the cylinder further contaminating
the next fresh charge. This fouls the plugs making a bad situation worse.
This fuel/carbon in the cylinder is not good for the rings, especially when
they haven't seated well.

y2k600f4 09-15-2008 05:31 PM

Quote:

When running a camshaft with 230+ degrees duration, combustion at low RPM
(under 3000 or so) is very poor. If the tune up isn't just right plugs foul very
easily.

How does this relate to poor ring seal?

On a good running engine, combustion completes before the exahust valve
opens or shortly there after. When the tune up is not right, combustion never
completes, this results in fuel/carbon in the cylinder further contaminating
the next fresh charge. This fouls the plugs making a bad situation worse.
This fuel/carbon in the cylinder is not good for the rings, especially when
they haven't seated well.
Thanks for the explanation on how a bad tune effects cylinder rings.

In my case I am pretty sure the carb is dialed in properly and timing is correct; but I plan on checking the carb and timing.

My issue is excessive burning of oil and I want to first investigate the rings by doing a leak down test. Then I will be checking the carb and timing. I just don't know where the oil is going ? Several people have posted potential problems and the list is getting longer :(

oldbogie 09-15-2008 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2k600f4
Thanks for the explanation on how a bad tune effects cylinder rings.

In my case I am pretty sure the carb is dialed in properly and timing is correct; but I plan on checking the carb and timing.

My issue is excessive burning of oil and I want to first investigate the rings by doing a leak down test. Then I will be checking the carb and timing. I just don't know where the oil is going ? Several people have posted potential problems and the list is getting longer :(

The rings are a major thing the leakdown test picks up.

Bogie


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.