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Old 07-24-2013, 08:24 PM
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help tight lifter bore

Hey guys, I have a recent build 454 (not built by me) that when I got it started I noticed a ticking sound. I pulled the intake to check the lifters and found one lifter that is sticking. When I removed the lifter it moves ok (still kinda tight) just off the cam, but gets really tight and sticks at the peak of movement. I tried in a different lifter and it is the same thing. The lifter has enough movement that it is spinning (circle marks on bottom) and no noticeable damage to the cam. I had heard people say to try cleaning the bore with a brass brush from a gun cleaning kit, which I tried a little but saw no real change. Is there a way I can fix this issue without pulling the motor apart and taking the block to the machine shop? Thanks

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Old 07-24-2013, 08:44 PM
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there are lifter bore hones available but are expensive, however if you have a port and polish kit, use the polishing brushes and break-in lube with high zinc properties to polish the lifter bore to make smooth surface in the bore, its probably due to slight imperfections in the bore, probably not well cleaned.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:22 PM
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that's it , rip off intake , valve cover , remove rocker , pushrod , and lifter, hone away . Then rebuild!!
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileGuy49 View Post
Hey guys, I have a recent build 454 (not built by me) that when I got it started I noticed a ticking sound. I pulled the intake to check the lifters and found one lifter that is sticking. When I removed the lifter it moves ok (still kinda tight) just off the cam, but gets really tight and sticks at the peak of movement. I tried in a different lifter and it is the same thing. The lifter has enough movement that it is spinning (circle marks on bottom) and no noticeable damage to the cam. I had heard people say to try cleaning the bore with a brass brush from a gun cleaning kit, which I tried a little but saw no real change. Is there a way I can fix this issue without pulling the motor apart and taking the block to the machine shop? Thanks
Use acetone on a brass shotgun brush and/or a shotgun 'mop' to rid the bore of baked on shellac. Carb cleaner should also work if it's the good stuff that burns like fire when you get it on your skin. Be sure there's no casting flash overhanging the bore at the top or at the oil galley holes.

I would then mic the bore top to bottom and at 90 degrees to determine the actual shape of the bore. Then if needed you can carefully hone it using an inexpensive brake cylinder hone if you don't want to let a machine shop handle it.

NOTE: If you use a stone hone, it's always a good idea to break the hone in on an old block's lifter bores before using it on your block. That allows any high spots on the stones to wear down and seasons the hone to give a better finish. Don't hold the hone stationary when honing. You want to shoot for a crosshatch pattern similar to a cylinder. There are also dingleberry hones. These flex hones are more forgiving in most cases and are easier to use in general.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:55 AM
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yeh it sounds like you've done this before...NOT.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:01 AM
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think about what you are saying, your telling him to do the exact same thing, the difference is your telling him to use acetone where as im telling him to use zinc. all in case you didn't know all of your break-in lubes and oils have high concentrations of zinc.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:39 AM
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I KNOW you're not so stupid as to call me out... so I'll just say to the OP- you decide what you want to do and if my response makes sense to you, then good. If it doesn't that's OK too.

FYI primordial, zinc will not remove a damn thing as far as being a solvent. Acetone will remove the shellac very effectively. I have done this dozens of times.

If you put a zinc break in lube on an abrasive hone I have no idea of the outcome, but my first instinct tells me that the viscosity will prevent any honing from taking place until the lube is dispersed to some degree. If this dispersal happens faster at the top of the hone as the lube runs downward from gravity, then the top of the bores will be cut bigger than the bottoms.

But in any event, lube as heavy as cam break in lube is NOT how you use a hone. And I'm saying YOU are the one who is totally clueless and has never done what you're recommending.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I KNOW you're not so stupid as to call me out... so I'll just say to the OP- you decide what you want to do and if my response makes sense to you, then good. If it doesn't that's OK too.

FYI primordial, zinc will not remove a damn thing as far as being a solvent. Acetone will remove the shellac very effectively. I have done this dozens of times.

If you put a zinc break in lube on an abrasive hone I have no idea of the outcome, but my first instinct tells me that the viscosity will prevent any honing from taking place until the lube is dispersed to some degree. If this dispersal happens faster at the top of the hone as the lube runs downward from gravity, then the top of the bores will be cut bigger than the bottoms.

But in any event, lube as heavy as cam break in lube is NOT how you use a hone. And I'm saying YOU are the one who is totally clueless and has never done what you're recommending.
I do not want to get in the middle of a pissing match here because I do appreciate any help possible. I will say that it makes more sense to use a solvent to remove any build up. A break in lube or any lube of any kind is supposed to keep parts from actually rubbing together, so I dont see it working well with a hone that is supposed to be grinding the bore. Thank you both for your help.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:38 AM
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If you choose to hone it yourself, keep a lifter handy. Coated w/clean 10w-30 motor oil, the lifter should slide down the bore by it's own weight (might need a little help to start it). Use 0.0015 lifter bore clearance as a minimum, 0.002 clearance is what I shoot for. Be sure to chamfer the ends of the bore just a little, enough to break the sharp edges if it's there.

Honing oil:
The basic requirements are the oil needs to lubricate to prevent chattering, it needs to cool (not a big concern here), and it needs to flush away particles as they're created during the removal of material.

There are honing oils made specifically for ball (flex) hones as well as for stone hones. Nothing like the right tool for the job, but you'll have to buy more than you'll need.

Some guys use WD-40, cooking vegetable oil, mineral spirits or kerosene straight, some use straight ATF or 10w-30 motor oil (I would not go thicker than that). I'm sure there are others that work, too. I use Marvel Mystery oil (love that smell), or in a pinch ATF thinned w/mineral spirits. Just be aware the thinner the oil the faster the cutting action.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
If you choose to hone it yourself, keep a lifter handy. Coated w/clean 10w-30 motor oil, the lifter should slide down the bore by it's own weight (might need a little help to start it). Use 0.0015 lifter bore clearance as a minimum, 0.002 clearance is what I shoot for. Be sure to chamfer the ends of the bore just a little, enough to break the sharp edges if it's there.

Honing oil:
The basic requirements are the oil needs to lubricate to prevent chattering, it needs to cool (not a big concern here), and it needs to flush away particles as they're created during the removal of material.

There are honing oils made specifically for ball (flex) hones as well as for stone hones. Nothing like the right tool for the job, but you'll have to buy more than you'll need.

Some guys use WD-40, cooking vegetable oil, mineral spirits or kerosene straight, some use straight ATF or 10w-30 motor oil (I would not go thicker than that). I'm sure there are others that work, too. I use Marvel Mystery oil (love that smell), or in a pinch ATF thinned w/mineral spirits. Just be aware the thinner the oil the faster the cutting action.
Can I do this with the motor still assembled?
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileGuy49 View Post
Can I do this with the motor still assembled?
I may be repeating myself here, but before honing, clean the bore down to bare metal. Then inspect it for casting flash or anything that could cause the lifter to be tight. I'm guessing you don't have the wherewithal to measure the bore diameter but if you do, measure it and compare to the lifter and hope for about 0.0020 to 0.0025" clearance. If you have no tools to measure, use a lifter as I mentioned above to see if it'll fit the bore nicely after cleaning/deburring. Only if the clearance is too tight or the lifter doesn't fit right, is honing needed.

Honing w/the engine assembled:
Definitely not the ideal situation, but if you can get a piece of toweling on top of the cam to catch the drips and such, AND you're careful to not run the hone too deep (which could snag the cloth or hit the cam ), then the answer is yes/maybe. You will have to clean the oil passages of any residue after honing, too. This can be done by back flushing the passages w/carb cleaner spray from both adjacent lifter bores. Use a rag to catch the cleaner as it comes out and put a clean cloth over the cam to catch anything the rag misses. The cloth covering the cam will need to go in and be removed through a lifter hole. This will be your biggest challenge. That, and getting it back out w./o dumping everything back onto the cam.

Hopefully honing won't be required, but you have to do what's needed, one way or the other.

Last edited by cobalt327; 07-25-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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