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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 10:58 AM
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THX guys!

@Thumpin455
After a lot talking with Jeff from KRE. I chose the 74cc heads finally. New forged pistons lay here on the carpet. The only stock parts i use are the inspected rods. Theyre fine for my goal (+400hp 5500rpm). My question was only related to the distributor. But thx for added info

@cobalt327
Yeah and im very fine with this forum .
I`m here to ask and prevent mistakes others made

@Mr. P-Body
O.k. than i use stock caps with ARP studs.
Than I`m should be fine with the stock Distributor, too.
Maybe you can recommend a fitting curve kit?

THX

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2012, 11:56 AM
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No "need" for studs, but if it gives you a "warm fuzzy", by all means!

Moroso's "curve kit" is fine. Be sure you get the correct one for your distributor "type" (points or HEI).

I whole-heartedly DISAGREE about the rods. REPLACE THEM!!! If you're going to spend $2K-plus on a pair of heads, $269 for a set of FORGED rods is "nothing". Cheap insurance. Remember, for every "success story" with cast rods in a Pontiac, there are 100 blocks in the scrap with cast rods "hanging out" of the pan.

FWIW

Jim
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2012, 09:47 AM
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Count me with PBody, forged rods are cheap insurance. For what it costs to upgrade to ARP bolts, resize, and make the stock rods good again, you can have forged rods that are ready to go with a balance for not much more. Sometimes they are cheaper than reworking the stock rods, and you dont have to worry about them snapping and taking out the block and cam.

Actually, about the only thing I dont see eye to eye with on Jim is our fuel choice. Everything he says about building them is how I do it too, I just run lots more compression. I dont bring up my fuel because it might be hard to find in Germany, it isnt everywhere like it is where I live.

You can take whatever he says as very good advice, the man builds great engines that run hard and last. I have never read or hear a bad thing about his work in the many years I have been into Pontiac engines. Do yourself a favor, and get some forged rods, you will appreciate it later.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:37 AM
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Thumpin,

Thanks for the kind words. I DO try...

As for compression, remember I'm "in the business". That is, my shop provides engines for customers. That makes us "different" than the average hobbyist. I can't sell a product and then "experiment" on making it "work". A hobbyist doesn't have to deal with warranties or unhappy customers. Buildmg a high compression (relatively speaking) street engine creates a whole set of issues for the "tuner" not usually encountered by stockers. Since my "job" is to make happy customers, it's much more important to be practical.

Jim
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2012, 01:09 PM
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How is about theese rods?

Jim Hand writes stock rods are good enough used below 5800rpm.

THX
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2012, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chev8y
How is about theese rods?

Jim Hand writes stock rods are good enough used below 5800rpm.

THX
Those are good rods, by looking at the specs.
But they are overkill for your build and more money than the 5140 rpm rods.
Mr. P Body sells the 5140 rods and so does butler. They are about half the price and plenty good for where your build is going to be at when you are done.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2012, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chev8y
Jim Hand writes stock rods are good enough used below 5800rpm.
The point that I would make is that while the cast rods w/ARP hardware in all likelihood will never give you a problem if the redline is adhered to, for the relatively small extra cost, moving up to forged rods makes good sense. Years ago, there used to be less choice in rods and they were expensive. Now, cheap good quality rods are available and there's just no good reason not to use them unless the budget prohibits it.

Now, I disagree w/the 99% failure rate of Pontiac engines using cast rods, but the fact is the cast rods ARE the weak link in a Pontiac engine. And w/a good set of heads there may be a need for more RPM than what the cast rods should be expected to endure.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:01 PM
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I wrote "Chapter 2, Building Your Shortbock" in Jims's book. I recommended then and still do, upgrade. We "scrounged" for forged rods for years. Now, we get them with a phone call.

The RPM rods are the "budget" forging, and quite good. The Eagle H-beam is the best rod "for the money". CrowerRods (billet H=beam) are "the best", along with Carillo... Crower "Sporstman" are the most reasonably priced "American made" rods.

Jim
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:34 AM
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o.k. thx.

I now ordered pro warrior h beam rods.

So what do you think how much usable RPM gain is in, with the crower 90916 and stock crank and block as "weak points".

I wanted to use stock Manifold with new beared Q-jet.
Or would you recommend another setup now. Maybe EDE RPM intake (i know shaker doesent fit) and a vacuum or mechanic 750cfm carb?


THX
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:40 PM
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Never "heard" of "pro warrior" rods. Who sells them?

Have not used the aforementioned cam.

Generally speaking, adding forgings makes a stock Pontiac bottom-end "good" to 6,200 opr so. We have one customer revving his 455 to 6,800 using Pontiac-spec rods (BME aluminum, though). Most racers go to the 6.8" BBC-sized rods.

The stock crank in a 400 Pontiac is stronger than most other cranks. Consider that a BBC or Hemi use a 2 3/4" main journal. The "small" Pontiac is 3". The BLOCK is the "weak link". One man in California (Vinnie Meyeda)makes 1,700 HP and revs to 9,000 using a nodular 400 crank. Our 4" stroke, 3" main billet went 9,200 every pass and had the same 8 pistons in it on the last pass as the first. At 40 passes, the rods are "done" according the rod maker.

FWIW

Jim
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body
Never "heard" of "pro warrior" rods. Who sells them?

....
Generally speaking, adding forgings makes a stock Pontiac bottom-end "good" to 6,200 opr so...
FWIW

Jim
Kauffman racing..

That would mean a RPM intake is bad idea (1500-6500rpm) and kills to much bottom end power on top.

THX
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:50 AM
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KRE. Well, that explains THAT... Let the buyer beware... Dirty Bird hasn't been down the track in over a year and they're still trying to "catch" him... (:-So far, only the Butler ProMod has been quicker with the Pontiac V8. Butler Performance is absolutely the "premiere" Pontiac builder.

RPM is the "red-headed stepchild" of intakes for the Pontiac. They work well on 400s for "enough" torque and good top-end. They tend to make TOO MUCH (yes, it IS possible) torque with the larger engines. We usually recommend Torker-2 for the 455-plus engines. It "softens" bottom-end power enough to gain a semblance of traction.

Be very careful when buying performance parts for the Pontiac. It's NOT a "Chevy" and reacts completely different to the same modifications. It's not a "peaky" engine like the hot Chevy would be. More like a Ford (big one) where it "spreads" the power out over the range. More of a constant "pull" than a "slam". But low-end torque will KILL traction. Not to worry. They still make PLENTY for "driving" with T-2. One is hard-pressed to feel a difference 'in traffic". Much of the "small block lore" has spilled over into other engine families where it doesn't really "apply".

Jim
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