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Old 02-29-2008, 11:24 AM
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Hey Cboy! Flaming river copied your suspension

Looks very familiar!




http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cf...rod/prd349.htm

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Old 02-29-2008, 11:49 AM
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When I first saw this in one of the 'Street Rod" magazines, I was thinking, "Can you say 'Twin-I-Beam Suspension"? I almost cut one out of a Ranger for my old Terraplane........

Wayne
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:51 AM
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I would hope at least a few people would look at that price tag and go, "Wait a minute, I can get an F-150 donor for $200, follow along on Hotrodders.Com, and end up with the same thing."

On the plus side, with Flaming River selling them it just might give a little more legitimacy to the idea of using twin I-Beams within a hot rod community that still remains a bit skeptical at this point in time.

What can I say:

* Comfortable ride
* Readily available at low cost
* The look of a traditional straight axle

My prediction is ten years from now the twin I-beam will be commonplace on newly built 20's and 30's era rods...particlulary open wheeled cars. (Anybody want to make it interesting and put up $10 against my $10?)
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:12 PM
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See what you have started Cboy!!!!
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:37 PM
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*ONLY* $3675.00

I didn't pay that much for my '68 F100...
Actually, I paid $375.00 for a running drivable truck, looked
like crap, but ran just fine...

K
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:50 PM
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Dewey, How much do you charge for your kits?

Shane
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet4x4s
Dewey, How much do you charge for your kits?
Which raises another question. What, exactly do you get for $3675? I can't find anything on the FR web site that gives details beyond the link that Arrowhead provided.
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:29 PM
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Cboy that kit is for people who don't weld or fabricate their own stuff. I always thought the twin I beam was neat because you can make it as wide or narrow as you need.Just imagine a car trailer with tandem twin I beams riding on air bags.I think that would make a great riding trailer and could be done fairly cheap.Also you could drop it for easier loading or unloading.
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:39 PM
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Flaming River

Another good question is where is it made? I just got my Mustang 2 steering rack from Flaming River; made in Argentina. In their full page ad on the back page of the Goodguys Gazette they are waving the flag and claiming ''Born in the USA'' Dave
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Old 03-01-2008, 06:26 AM
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Have you noticed the similarity between the "Twin I-Beam" and the "MacPherson strut"? (The difference, of course, is that the lower link is solid to the spindle with the Twin I-Beam and the upper "link" is solid to the spindle with the MacPherson.) And, if I'm not mistaken, Ford had its design long before the MacPherson strut became popular.

Ah, just realized something. With the lower link solid to the spindle, it is necessary that the lower link be extremely long (as in the Twin I-Beam) to avoid jacking under high cornering loads. (This "jacking" is when the outside wheel tucks in and the car jumps up. This is a problem with swing axle cars and is the reason why GM had to add rebound straps to the axles of early Corvairs.)

So, there is a very distinct difference between the two designs after all.

http://home.earthlink.net/~whshope

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Old 03-01-2008, 07:30 AM
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Now what those of us who use the twin I beam need to do is come up with some 5 on 4 1/2 or 4 3/4 hubs so lots of wheels fit the hubs..Two downsides to using the donor is that one they are heavy and the other is that the hubs are 5 on 5 1/2 bolt circle..

Also the drop in the stock axles can make it a bit tough to work out the the front end attachments..

I went ahead and converted mine to rear steer..Just will need to see how that works out..

Sam
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShope
Have you noticed the similarity between the "Twin I-Beam" and the "MacPherson strut"? (The difference, of course, is that the lower link is solid to the spindle with the Twin I-Beam and the upper "link" is solid to the spindle with the MacPherson.) And, if I'm not mistaken, Ford had its design long before the MacPherson strut became popular.

Ah, just realized something. With the lower link solid to the spindle, it is necessary that the lower link be extremely long (as in the Twin I-Beam) to avoid jacking under high cornering loads. (This "jacking" is when the outside wheel tucks in and the car jumps up. This is a problem with swing axle cars and is the reason why GM had to add rebound straps to the axles of early Corvairs.)

So, there is a very distinct difference between the two designs after all.

http://home.earthlink.net/~whshope
Since the Twin I-Beam uses kingpins, shouldn't that be lower link _and_ upper link solid to the spindle? The Macpherson strut keeps a fixed camber while the I-beam yields a constantly changing camber, best I can tell anyway.

I always think of the rear of a VW Beetle (old ones; never seen the rear suspension of a new one) when I see "jacking". They always looked like somebody gave 'em a good kick in the rear after taking 'em off a lift. You'd have to roll them a few feet to get the rear back down and the wheels spread apart again.

Would such jacking also lead to making the vehicle easier to 'trip' under lateral forces?

I recently bought a '68 Volvo Amazon and noticed it has limiting straps on each end of the rear axle. It's not an independent rear suspension, just ordinary differential and solid axle with trailing arms, so could it be the limit straps are needed because it's relatively narrow (pivot point being the other end of the axle)? If that's the case, shouldn't an I-Beam also have limit straps if used on a higher performance vehicle than a pickup?
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
...shouldn't that be lower link _and_ upper link solid to the spindle?
What I was getting at was that the camber is controlled by the lower link (axle). I was likening the coilover to a strut and calling it the "upper link." This is absurd, of course, since, with the MacPherson...as you point out..., the strut controls the camber.

I was struck by the visual similarity and I'm afraid I made too much of it. This is what happens when I post immediately upon arising and before my brain is fully awake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
I always think of the rear of a VW Beetle (old ones; never seen the rear suspension of a new one) when I see "jacking". They always looked like somebody gave 'em a good kick in the rear after taking 'em off a lift. You'd have to roll them a few feet to get the rear back down and the wheels spread apart again.

Would such jacking also lead to making the vehicle easier to 'trip' under lateral forces?
Zackly! In fact, it's the lateral forces that usually bring about the jacking. It's like the overcenter action of a toggle switch. Once the lateral forces exceed a critical value, the car jumps up and...quite often...rolls over. This happened...so we heard at Chrysler...during the early testing of the Corvair at the GM proving grounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
I recently bought a '68 Volvo Amazon and noticed it has limiting straps on each end of the rear axle. It's not an independent rear suspension, just ordinary differential and solid axle with trailing arms, so could it be the limit straps are needed because it's relatively narrow (pivot point being the other end of the axle)? If that's the case, shouldn't an I-Beam also have limit straps if used on a higher performance vehicle than a pickup?
The early Corvettes also had fabric rebound limiting straps. These are not intended for use during cornering. They are, instead, similar to the NASCAR front suspension chains which limit rebound, thus making it easier to change tires.

If a car is intended for autocrosses and such, it probably will not have a Twin I-Beam suspension. But, so long as the pivot point is as low as possible, there shouldn't be any problems.

(As an aside, I remember a hot rod club...the "Over The Hill Gang"...that used to occasionally show up at the SCCA autocrosses in southern California and there was a T-bucket that did quite well.)

http://home.earthlink.net/~whshope
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShope
If a car is intended for autocrosses and such, it probably will not have a Twin I-Beam suspension. But, so long as the pivot point is as low as possible, there shouldn't be any problems.
Ah. So in the case of cboy's Rat on a shoestring, it looks like a person would already be pushing things 'way past any sense before jacking and tripping due to the I-beam suspension came into play.

(Can't tell much about that Flaming River setup; they don't appear to give much detail anywhere).
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:25 PM
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Honestly I am using the twin I-beam on my Junkyard Dawg and if one is doing a rat on a shoestring or something of that nature the twin I-beam is just fine..However if I were doing a deuce or something else I woudl use something appropriate to the build..When doing an IFS myself I will work for the best handling I can get and the length and locations of the control arms will go where they need to go to get the desired result..

Sam
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