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Old 06-19-2005, 07:08 PM
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Hey Doc alternator dont work stores says OK?

I purchased a brand new 3 wire GM Internal regulator alternator from the local parts store and they tested it before I brought it home. I watched, computer said GOOD.

Hooked it up on the car, Positive battery cable has a second wire attached to it so I hooked the second battery cable wire to the battery terminal on back of the alternator. Hooked the brown wire up to the number 1 terminal and the red wire from the number two terminal to the battery conection on the back of the alternator.

Checked voltage on the battery 11.68 started her up reved engine to about 2000 rpm and checked battery voltage. 11.68 no change at all.

Is the alternator bad or did I do something wrong. Again it checked good on their computerized test machine.

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Ric

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Old 06-19-2005, 08:46 PM
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Charge

Doc here,

First off need to know what vehicle were dealing with here...

Next...just from what you describe, It sounds like you did it right...Genericly anyway...

Main power, to battery, Brown to indicator lamp or gauge, and red to switched power source..Should be all good..in the generic sense..

You should run a 10 gauge GROUND wire from the main grounding bolt (at or near your starter) To the Alternator case...to properly bond it..

When you first turn the key, not start, do you get a BATT light or no? Some systems will become disabled if the lamp is out...

Did you have to jump the car to get it running?? Your battery may be wayyy dead, and the alternator is not going to bring it back up..If that's the case, charge the battery for 6 to 8 hours on a 10 amp charger ...Then try it again..

If all that fails ... It's not beyond the realm of possibility that the thing failed on the first crank..(or maybe on THEIR confuser..) Electronic QC today is Crap compared to what it used to be...

Suggest taking it to a DIFFERENT store and have it tested..If it fails there get an estimate for replacement of the dead alternator and the readings, then go back and have them retest it, If it passes there, their Confuser is sick...show them your test results and demand a replacement.

It is Highly possible that the Test jig is cornfuzzeled OR the guy that ran the test wasn't the sharpest crayon in the box..and did it wrong ... or even damaged it...

Let us know the Vehicle, year ect...can maybe give you more definitive answers...I may even have a schematic for it...

Doc
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:03 PM
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87 camaro see Project journal

Ric
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Old 06-19-2005, 09:47 PM
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Wire

Doc here

My Camero Schematics only go up to 81...

However, I don't think the premise changed much in 87...

The STOCK system is wired thusly, (on an up to 81 anyway) There were 3 reds (the extra red shows 81 only, but doesn't say 81 and up..) Disregarding that for a minute..Red 1 And Red 2 go to The Fusible link at the starter..

You said you wired this directly into the Battery? or no...If you used stock wire harness it should be going to the main power solenoid Bolt, Via Fusible link..If this is your config..check the fuse link It may be open..

OK going on..The brown wire goes into the main harness and somewhere (probably at the firewall) changes to 2 wires..

one brown/white which goes to the "Run" position on the Ignition switch, and:

Brown which goes to the Charge light...

The other side of the charge light comes out on a Pink wire to a fuse then to a pink/black, back into the Ignition switch "Run" position..

Check the charge light for no op, and if bad replace it or the fuse...

If that's all good the alternator is an OBF...refer to my last post...

Hope that helps!
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Old 06-19-2005, 11:07 PM
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First off 1982 was a complete redesign of the camaro. Third generation of the Camaro nothing on an 81 is the same on an 82 to 92.

Ok I should have given you a lot more info but I didn't want to bore you so here goes. The only thing left that is an 87 camaro is a few of the body and chassis parts.

This car was V6 2.8 litre with fuel injection. It is now a 383 stroker with a carb. the alternator that came with the original car had about 8 wires comming out of it for all the confuser stuff. Gone now. So yes instead of going from the starter and instead of using a junction terminal on the side of the rad cradle I just used one of those battery cables that has a number 10 wire grafted onto it at the factory the big fat wire goes straight to the starter and the number 10 wire goes to the back of the alternator. The red wire from the 2 prong plug I just ran right to the terminal on the back of the alternator. And the brown wire goes into the plug in the firewall and eventually ends up at a voltage gage.

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Old 06-20-2005, 07:18 PM
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Alternator

Doc here,

First off...To avert tragedy, GET those fuse links installed....

ESPECIALLY since your up to electrical mods now!!!

You don't want to see all your Hard work go up in flames in a high current fire you won't be able to Stop or put out...(Because the source is a continual feed of fuel..)

BTW : NICE work on the CAR!!!! Looks sweet...

OK, If you running a CS 130 CS 120 Alternator (stock for 87) The appropriate diagram is below...If you are running something DIFFERENT, you need to Isolate the Batt Wire, and The "L" Terminal wire to marry it into the standard harness...for 2 wire apps...For 3 wire apps you need the Batt and "L" wires as well as..The "I" wire...In either case..On the CS 120/130 Alternator, (which may NOT be what you have,) Won't "Self Excite the regulator unless the "L" terminal is used..

If your is different (Early GM) you need to isolate those wires out of the stock harness and hook them up...If that is how you have it now...and it's still not charging...the Alternator is bad...out of the box...or shortly there after!



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Old 06-20-2005, 10:45 PM
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Sorry Doc I have misslead you again. The alternator that we are using on the car is a 3 wire unit with internal regulator. I don't know what number you call these but it did come stock on the 1983 camaro with the 305 lg4 engine.

As for the fuseable link where exactly do I need to put one. Im guessing in the 10 gauge wire going to the battery terminal on the back of the alternator?

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Old 06-21-2005, 01:15 AM
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Wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by docvette
Doc here,

If your is different (Early GM, Delcotron 3 wire) you need to isolate those wires out of the stock harness and hook them up...If that is how you have it now...and it's still not charging...the Alternator is bad...out of the box...or shortly there after!

Doc
You need to insure that you have the "L" and "I" WIRES out of the OLD HARNESS to make it work.....in the car's system...for 3 wire..

The Proper way to install those fuse links is at the main bolt on the starter, abandon those wire stubs..get a fuse link trident 3/8 ring terminal on one side and (3 wire out) at the local parts house...make your connections:

1 ) switched (ign, switched fuse buss, any item that requires the key be on),

2 ) non~switched (computer memory,CD memory,dome and lighting system,lighter,and any ACC that requires non SW power will go on this buss )

3 ) alternator main power Connection only, here.

As you know, always keep fuse links exterior of the car.

Again, ISOLATE Those 2 wires out of the OLD harness and hook them up at the new alternator..you should be fine IF THE new one isn't bad..

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Old 06-21-2005, 07:51 AM
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This car came with a terminal block mounted on the side of the Rad support. That is where the alternator wire was hooked up. I kind of like that arrangement because it keeps the wires from having to pass under the headers etc to make there way to the starter. Less chance of a burnt wire. If I put that block back in and run the fuseable links in each of the lines you suggest is this a bad option?

Also the method I am using for testing the alternator does this work. All I did to test it was check the voltage at the battery. 11.6 or whatever it was started the checked the voltage at the battery again. No change means alternator is not work right? (provided you rev the engine to like 1500 rpm to make sure the alternator kicks in)

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Old 06-21-2005, 07:03 PM
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Terminal block

Doc here,

If the terminal block at the radiator support is the only area you have left without possible damage to the harness then that is what you must do..

The Factory and most other applications go to the starter bolt, mainly because there is NO drop or current loss Stringing it out place to place from the main cable, It's all tightly bonded at the solenoid bolt..but physics is physics..

I WOULD oversize (super-size those fries for ya??) The cable from the starter to the terminal block where the links will be so it can handle any load you throw at it...

An alternator if working will charge at any speed, exceptions to the rule are a very dead battery, High current top off (after starting function) or a VERY HIGH current load..Also too small an alternator for the system.

11. anything .....IS JUST wrong....EVEN a discharged battery with good cells will read slightly higher than that! around 11.98....and at that, It probably won't start the car...

Never should an operational system be below 14.4 volts at ANY speed....13.5 or there abouts after start, during top off about 3 minutes on a good system...and MAYBE 12.98 with A FULL load on the system ...lights, heater,AC, stop, turn,head and tails on...

Were the system ALLOWED to run at 11 volts at anytime, the battery will run dead over time, and you'd tear the cells up..because the under charge is Collective..a little bit here, a little bit there..and after weeks or months of this the battery is at 11 something and won't start the car, Probably WON'T take a charge, Case bulging and cells deteriorating...AND maybe gas and explode fooling around with it...You NEED 14.4 Volts (or there abouts ) to keep the system active...no change means you are NOT CHARGING..

I don't advise this , because your car is computerized and it can also cause a Battery explosion..But before the days of computers, WE used to start it and pull the battery cable off the battery...

If it died , the Alternator is SHOT...If it ran, and the readings between the CABLES was 14.4..stop the car, hook the battery BACK up and start the car and measure again...IF it read 11 anything...the battery had a cell shorted..we would replace that..

HOWEVER this is not safe or advised...and you didn't hear it from me... LOL....

Doc
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Old 06-21-2005, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docvette
Doc here,



If your is different (Early GM) you need to isolate those wires out of the stock harness and hook them up...If that is how you have it now...and it's still not charging...the Alternator is bad...out of the box...or shortly there after!
Doc



You were right all along I was trying to get an alternator that was shot to work. Took the brand new confuser tested alternator back and exchanged it for another one (didn't bother to get it tested.) Put it on the car started it up. 14.4 volts right off.

If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck. It might have been brand new and guaranteed and all but I should have realized as soon as it didn't work it was dud. Sorry to drag you through all this for such a simple problem. But thanks for all your help and I will take your suggestion on the fusible links and install them.

Thanks again
Ric
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:24 PM
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The Fix

Doc here,

Thanks for posting back with the fix...will help the next guy!

Glad to hear your All Good now.

No sweat on the problem...happens all the time...and as said before QC on Electrical nowadays is just crappy..always expect even though new, it's bad until you can prove otherwise!

Get those links installed...and..

Happy Rodding!

Doc
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