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Old 05-02-2010, 05:11 PM
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hidden mounting bolts

I have a 33 Ford steel car that I would prefer to have the mounting bolts hidden on for the gas tank cover & front fenders. Right now there are 4 bolts @ the top of the gas tank mounting cover that are exposed, & there are 2 bolts/front fender that I also want to have hidden.

I have a few ideas, but thought I would see what people have done in the past, & what has been successful.

Thanks,

Mike

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Old 05-03-2010, 08:41 AM
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One method that is fairly simple is to slightly countersink the bolt hole. Insert a flathead screw and temporarily secure it in place with a nut on the back side. This will keep the screw square with the mounting surface. Weld the screw in place. Finish grind the weld. Remove the nut. You will end up with a stud protruding thru the gas tank mount area or the fender that can then be held in place with a washer nut combo from below.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:14 AM
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The problem is you have to be VERY careful when tightening the nut. Just normal tightening will suck the stud down leaving a "dent" on the outer surface. If you use a jamb nut or something to keep it tight it will still end up with a "dent" on the outer surface once that fender or gas tank cover starts moving around during driving.

You really need to make a support for the stud. Ideally not having anything welded to the back side of an outer panel is the best way. I don't care what you do, those welds will suck down at some point, it simply doens't work to weld on the back of an outer panel for something like this.

If you make a stud with a large flat head on the top of the stud. Something like a quarter or larger sized top made of something like 3/32 metal. Welding this around the outer edge will spread the pressures out and not cause as much trouble for you. But even this will still likely show thru on the outside over time.

Brian
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:10 PM
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The sud method outlined by Frisco will work, but you must do one thing. The gas tank cover must fit flush to the body at the area of the stud. If it does not then you will have a depression like Brian said when you tighten down on it.

The front fender lower brace bolt can be done the same way. I glassed a 1x1x1/8 steel plate to the inside of my fiberglass fenders just so I could eliminate that exterior bolt. The 1x1x1/8 plate had a 3/8" bolt welded to it that goes through the hole in the lower fender brace. I had concerns about it coming loose over time and about it leaving a depression when tightened down. After several years both those concerns have proven unfounded.

I did not want any bolts showing on my gas tank cover either, so I modified the rear lip of my body. I extended the lip just enough so that the gas tank cover fit under it. Then I rely just on the outer bolts at each end to secure it. That method has also proven itself over time.

Vince
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
I glassed a 1x1x1/8 steel plate to the inside of my fiberglass fenders just so I could eliminate that exterior bolt. The 1x1x1/8 plate had a 3/8" bolt welded to it that goes through the hole in the lower fender brace. I had concerns about it coming loose over time and about it leaving a depression when tightened down. After several years both those concerns have proven unfounded.

Vince

You did exactly what I outlined on your fender. That would be the perfect way to do it with fiberglass, and it WILL hold up fine. But with metal, it is a whole different ball game. Welding a plate like that in there will "likely" work well over the years but it still can show. Any weld to the skin holding something or anything like that is VERY likely to show thru in time.

Brian
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:41 AM
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OK guys, thanks for the comments. I believe the stud idea will work adequately on the gas tank cover, but on the front fenders that do not have any holes drilled already, I was thinking of using a cage nut which could be easily welded or even glued to the inner surface. These are 2 inches long as shown in the PDF file. This would require a specific length bolt to eliminate any bottoming out of the bolt into the fender.

What are your thoughts ? Good idea or bad ?

Thanks,
Mike
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File Type: pdf cage nut.pdf (27.3 KB, 81 views)
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod Mike
OK guys, thanks for the comments. I believe the stud idea will work adequately on the gas tank cover, but on the front fenders that do not have any holes drilled already, I was thinking of using a cage nut which could be easily welded or even glued to the inner surface. These are 2 inches long as shown in the PDF file. This would require a specific length bolt to eliminate any bottoming out of the bolt into the fender.

What are your thoughts ? Good idea or bad ?

Thanks,
Mike
If it's welded to the underside of the fender it WILL show thru eventually. The problem with the caged nuts is the base isn't large enough to spread the force around. A weld at each end will simply not be enough.

Brian
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:15 AM
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hidden mounting bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
If it's welded to the underside of the fender it WILL show thru eventually. The problem with the caged nuts is the base isn't large enough to spread the force around. A weld at each end will simply not be enough.

Brian
Brian,

Thanks for the comments. I have to disagree w/you on the ability of the caged nuts that I had shown in a previous file. They are 2 inches long & maybe 1/2 wide. There is adequate length here for welding to ensure adequate retention. I used these same caged weld nut designs on my rear fenders for mounting & only welded the ends. They have not broken any welds, even when I over torqued the fastener.

I am interested in your comments on "showing thru eventually". I assume the ghost lines from the weld is what you are talking about ? Or is it just the added metal thickness to the fender that might be the concern ?

Thanks,
MIke.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod Mike
Brian,

I assume the ghost lines from the weld is what you are talking about ? Thanks,
MIke.
Yep, it isn't a case of "will" it show, it is a "when" will it show. ANY weld like that is GOING TO show on the outside at some point.

Brian
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:02 AM
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hidden bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Yep, it isn't a case of "will" it show, it is a "when" will it show. ANY weld like that is GOING TO show on the outside at some point.

Brian
Brian & others,

So why wouldn't using a product like Fusor be OK instead of welding ?

Thanks,
Mike.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod Mike
Brian & others,

So why wouldn't using a product like Fusor be OK instead of welding ?

Thanks,
Mike.
Now there is a great use for these adhesives in hotrodding!

Yes, a large base on a stud and bond it to the fender, it would work PERFECT.

Brian
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:28 AM
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hidden bolts

Brian,

Thanks for the comments & responding to all my questions. I really appreciate your opinions as I know you have worked on these Model 40's a lot in the past

Thanks to all,
Mike.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:38 AM
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using adhesives

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Now there is a great use for these adhesives in hotrodding!

Yes, a large base on a stud and bond it to the fender, it would work PERFECT.

Brian
Brian & others,

I used the Maxim # 812 Bonding adhesive on the rear gas tank cover & also the front fender braces. After allowing the adhesive to sit for a few days, I mounted everything up. I had 2 "failures" out of the 8 joints - the 2 front larger fender braces failed in what appears to be from shear. Realize these braces had to be modified to fit the IFS system I have on the car now, but I have spend several hours getting these to fit well.

Does anyone have any experience w/the Evercoat Maxim # 812 ? I was mildly surprised this happened - the car is not even on the road yet

Thanks,
Mike.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:02 AM
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Those cage nuts shown in the PDF likely do not have adequate bonding area to be used with adhesives..what one might do is to weld a stud to a larger piece of metal and then bond that to the backside of the article to be mounted..

Sam
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:30 AM
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Very good point Sam.

Brian
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