I need some drill bits capable of drilling out the rivets in these wheels so I can reverse them.
HSS bits won't touch the steel in the rivets (grade 8?). I tried solid carbide and they did a great job, fell right through the rivets but they just sit there looking for an excuse to break off. Can't afford to drill 20 rivets @ $12/rivet!
Eastwood has this set of bits that sound like they would be the ticket but I don't want the whole set, just a couple 1/4" ones to attack my rivets. Does anyone know where I can buy individual tough, hardened bits like this that can drill tough steels?
There is an outfit in our area called Tacoma Screw Products that carries a full line of industrial tools and hardware..I would think that in your area there shoudl be a similar outlet..I can get 1 or a 100 of just about any kind of thing I need from those guys..
Lacking that it looks like those rivet heads stick up..I have one of those little mini air drive cutoff saws from Harbor Frieght..Might try that...
Try cutting off the heads of the rivets and then take a big punch and the 4 lb hammer to the rivet ... should work..
Least that is what I would try as the ole grind off the heads punch em out deal has worked for me for ages..
Trust me, I have tried all of those 'easy' methods. Hammered from the front, the back, with heat to expand the aluminum, with a pneumatic impact hammer, and any other way you can think of. I have ground off all the rivet heads and center punched them ready to drill. The one that I drilled successfully with a couple of carbide bits showed the sides of the rivets are heavily fluted with helix threads that bite deeply into the aluminum so there is no way to press them out short of a hydraulic press with many hundred #s of pressure. There is no easy way to set up the wheel for that process.
I don't have an industrial tool supply house here in Bakersfield so would have to go to LA which leaves me with the best option of finding out form you guys where to look!
UPDATE: Machine shop tom just PM'd me with a link to a supplier and I ordered two! Only downside is that the supplier has a LOT of toys that I 'need'. Thanx a lot Tom!!
Willys...take a close look at those bits of Eastwoods. Those are carbide tipped drill bitts and you should be able to pick them up at Lowes. Home Depot, etc.
Heat the rivet heads red hot with a torch and then cool them with WD-40 or other spray lubricant. Use a small five pound sledge hammer and a good punch to drive them out.
You may have to repeat the procedure many times if they are extensively corroded into the aluminum.
The process works because of the different expansion rates between the dissimilar metals and will help break the bond formed from years of corrosion.
Be patient, it can take 5-10 heat cycles before they get loose enough to drive out.
For some reason that does not make sence to me. The aluminum will spread heat and therefore heat slower than the steel rivet. That means the rivet will expand faster than the aloy making it tighter, then the aloy will cool faster again making it tighter. How can this work? I have seen heating the outside part and freezing the inside to put it togther and that gives lmost a pres fit when at room temp but never this.
I am not saying your wrong just that it does not make sence acording to the laws of physics as I understand them.
I tried solid carbide and they did a great job, fell right through the rivets but they just sit there looking for an excuse to break off. Can't afford to drill 20 rivets @ $12/rivet!
Another thing also. A solid carbide bit will drill out all 20 but the key is to support the rim solid and use a drill press. Solid carbide is brittle and any flex at all will shatter it. I use solid carbide to drill out taps that have been broken out and I doubt the rivets are harder than that. The key is a solid piece, a stable drill press, and let the drill bit do the work. BTW..when you reverse the rims are you leaving the valve stem inside or going to plug and move it to the outside?
I did use a drill press and still lost the carbide bits. The Enco sales literature specifically says their solid carbide bits are NOT for hardened steel, just mild steel aluminum etc. I guess the goal is long life in lots of production holes. The bits I bought are high carbon steel shafts with two straight flutes and sharp carbide tips - the drill bit equivalent of a milling bit - and are recommended for drilling hardened steel.
And chuck, I heated a rivet red so many times and beat on it twice as many times it would make you puke!! I was amazed how deep the threads were on the sides of the rivet I finally drilled out. There isn't any possible way to urge them out short of enough hydraulic press pressure to yield the aluminum and I can't figure a way to get my press into the shrouded tail of the rivet. They are nothing more than high carbon steel so there HAS to be a drill bit that can attack them successfully. I have high hopes for the carbide tipped ones I ordered from Enco. As I said, the solid carbide bits drilled the rivets easily but are way too brittle for the application.
Oh, and the valve stems will be inside, just like Ed Roth did it!
Willys-
Call around to the machine shops/ pattern shops and ask of they have an EPDM (or EDPM?) machine. Its a machine that electronically burns extremely straight holes into broken taps. Might be worth a try...
Been; going to a machine shop is plan "F". Right now I am trying plan "E" with the carbide tipped drill bits I just ordered. I know for sure a good machine shop can do this no sweat but, a) I am Mr. DIY and hate to farm out work, and b) machine shops are really expensive nowadays! I haven't gotten out of one for less than $100 for anything recently. I can see this project costing $150 to $200 easy.
Projects like this are my therapy, saves paying a shrink, not critical do-or-die situations so I like to play around a little. And, in the end I learn something and add to my tool crib which is ALWAYS a good thing.
i use to drill out stainless steel rivets with a cobalt drill bit. They are a pain, you'd be drilling and if you went to fast with the drill bit you would create a hard spot in the stainless. and the drill bit wouldn't be able to go through it. I also haven't had to drill out s.s. rivets with a inner shank width of more than 3/16" also. Usually they where 3/32 and 1/8 rivets, and usually they where set in titanium, not aluminum and steel. Maybe before you give up and take it to a machine shop (which i doubt your going to do anyways) try talking nicely to an aircraft repair shop at your local airport, somebody there might have the ticket for drilling those out? Another idea is if you have a heavy piece of steel (to use as a buck) and a rivet gun/air chisel. if you have a snap with a pin on the end of it like this:
you could take the head off of the rivet, drill a hole partway into the rivet. back up the material with the steel and drive the pin out with the air chisel, my only thoughts is the problem with the threaded holes that the rivets are set in. I've never run into a rivet that was set in a hole like that. (but if you couldn't tell my experience is in the aviation industry not the automotive industry)
So if the rivets are in a threaded hole and in that tight I am guessing there is a reason. Being a wheel strength would be my guess so how are you going to re-rivet it when your done? Do you think you can make it strong enough.
Mmartin; I already tried my trusty Harbor Freight air chisel with a punch bit like that. No dice.
Daimon; These will go on a clone of Ed Roth's Mysterion show car. I definitely want to make it a driver - his car, built in '63 was thrown away in '64 'cause the frame kept breaking just from the jostling it got in the truck going from show to show. Thus the wheels will see maybe 10 miles/yr at parade speeds. I plan to tap the holes and use grade 8, Allen button-head cap screws with red Lok-Tite to replace the rivets.
I'm in the wrong business on the wrong side of the turf!!! Willys...if you were over my way I'd do it for Freebies. I don't know who made the remark about the threads but I would assume that the threads are put into the two parts and when you buck the rivet down it locks into the threads and keep anything from coming loose. Willys...you don't have a mill do you, where you could mill the rivets out (or know anyone that does) A two flute end mill should go straight thru with no problem. But again it has to be fastened down with no movement at all. One other key with a carbide drill is run it rather fast 1500+ rpm's and keep the chips cleared out. If a chip gets bound up in the hole you are almost guaranteed it will snap. I wouldn't go down more than .100 at a time without pulling it back up and blowing the chips out. It's hard to explain because I do it all the time but if you are familiar with peck drilling, that is what you need to do. Once you get the hang of it, one bit should do all rivets.
Can you chuck an end mill into a drill press? And if so is a 2 or 3 fluted end mill stronger than a drill bit?
Oh for a machine shop here they are charging $50 an hour and that includes set up time so I would say it would be $150 or better by the time they were done.
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