high volume and high pressure oil pumps can destroy cam and distributor gears! - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 01-03-2003, 04:29 PM
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Post high volume and high pressure oil pumps can destroy cam and distributor gears!

According to Crane cams high volume and high pressure oil pumps can shorten the life expectency of your cam and distributor gears. This has been a problem for me since I built my last engine. I have never had problems before and haven't heard of anyone else having this same problem. Crane says: "If you must run these types of oil pumps, you can increase the life of the gears by adding more oil flow over the gear area to help cool off the point of contact."
HOW DO I INCREASE THE OIL FLOW over the gears???
p.s It is a Small block chevy.

<img src="graemlins/sweat.gif" border="0" alt="[sweat]" /> <img src="graemlins/sweat.gif" border="0" alt="[sweat]" />

[ January 03, 2003: Message edited by: Knobie ]</p>
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Old 01-03-2003, 04:52 PM
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A better question is...
Why did you need to install a HP/HV oil pump??
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Old 01-03-2003, 05:05 PM
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I run a high volume pump to extend the life of the bearings etc. The motor produces in excess of 450 hp. I was always under the impression that a performance engine should have a high volume or a high pressure pump. I was told that for every 1000 rpm you should have 10 lbs pressure. Am I wrong???

[ January 03, 2003: Message edited by: Knobie ]</p>
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Old 01-03-2003, 06:10 PM
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a stock pump will give you that
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Old 01-03-2003, 06:10 PM
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I checked out more manufacturers of cams and the all recommend NOT using high volume oil pumps!!!
Check you distributor gears! If damaged, your cam will be damaged as well. It left me on the side of the road once!!! What do ya do? Run a stock pump???????? <img src="graemlins/pain.gif" border="0" alt="[pain]" />
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Old 01-03-2003, 08:59 PM
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run a M-55A Mellings pump, comparable to the old Z-28 Camaro pump.
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Old 01-03-2003, 10:37 PM
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Yeah why do they even have high pressure pumps (I was under the impression that high volume pumps could be bought that wern't high pressure and that you needed them in some cases)
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Old 01-04-2003, 02:28 AM
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I run Big block pumps on on my HP small blocks no problems using them years back.

[ January 04, 2003: Message edited by: roys63 ]</p>
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Old 01-04-2003, 06:18 AM
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There is not need to upgrade small chevy oiling system unless you are trying to run loose bearing clearances. Some racers do this. In theory the motor will have less internal friction, and the higher oil volume is needed to feed the loose bearings. For street/strip no need.

Chris
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Old 01-04-2003, 07:09 AM
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Courtesy of <a href="http://www.melling.com/techbul1.html" target="_blank">-Melling Engine Parts-</a>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

High Volume Pumps, Advantages, Myths & Fables


Most of the stock automobile engines are designed to operate from idle to 4500 RPM. The original volume and pressure oil pump will work fine in this type of application. As the demands on the engine increase so does the demands on the oiling system and pump.

The oil pump's most difficult task is to supply oil to the connecting rod bearing that is the farthest from the pump. To reach this bearing, the oil travels from three to four feet, turns numerous square corners thru small holes in the crankshaft to the rod bearing. The rod bearing doesn't help matters. It is traveling in a circle which means centrifugal force is pulling the oil out of the bearing.

A 350 Chevy has a 3.4811 stroke and a 2.111 rod journal. The outer edge of the journal travels 17.5311 every revolution. At 1000 RPM, the outer edge is traveling at 16.6 MPH and 74.7 MPH at 4500 RPM. If we take this engine to 6500 the outer edge is up to 107.9 and at 8500 it is 141.1 MPH. Now imagine driving a car around a curve at those speeds and you can feel the centrifugal force. Now imagine doing it around a circle with a 5.581, diameter.

The size of the gears or rotors determines the amount of oil a pump can move at any given RPM. Resistance to this movement creates the pressure. If a pump is not large enough to meet the demands of the engine, there will not be any pressure. Or if the demands of the engine are increased beyond the pumps capabilities there will be a loss of oil pressure. This is where high volume pumps come in; they take care of any increased demands of the engine.

Increases in the engine's oil requirements come from higher RPM, being able to rev faster, increased bearing clearances, remote oil cooler and/or filter and any combination of these. Most high volume pumps also have a increase in pressure to help get the oil out to the bearings faster.

That is what a high volume pump will do. Now let Is consider what it will not do.
  • It will not replace a rebuild in a worn-out engine. It may increase pressure but the engine is still worn-out.
  • It will not pump the oil pan dry. Both solid and hydraulic lifters have metering valves to limit flow of the oil to the top of the engine.

    If a pan is pumped dry, it is because the holes that drain oil back to the pan are plugged. If the high volume pump is also higher pressure, there will be a slight increase in flow to the top.
  • It will not wear out distributor gears. The load on the gear is directly related to the resistance to flow. Oil pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. The Ford 427 FE "side oiler" used a pump with relief valve set at 125 psi and it used a standard distributor gear.

    Distributor gear failures are usually caused by a worn gear on a new cam gear and/or worn bearings allowing misalignment.
  • It will not cause foaming of the oil. With any oil pump, the excess oil not needed by the engine is recirculated within the pump. Any additional foaming is usually created by revving the engine higher. The oil thrown from the rod bearings is going faster and causes the foaming.

    This is why high performance engines use a windage tray.
  • It will not cause spark scatter. Because of the pump pressure there is a load on the distributor gear. The number of teeth on the oil pump gears determine the number of impulses per revolution of the pump. In a SB Chevy there are seven teeth on each gear giving 14 impulses per revolution. At 6000 RPM the oil pump is turning 3000 RPM or 50 revolutions per second. To have an effect on the distributor, these impulses would have to vibrate the distributor gear through an intermediate shaft that has loose connections at both ends. Spark scatter is usually caused by weak springs in the points or dust inside the distributor cap.

High volume pumps can be a big advantage if used where needed. If installed in an engine that does not need the additional volume, they will not create a problem. The additional flow will be recirculated within the pump.
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Old 01-04-2003, 08:40 AM
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see below. <img src="graemlins/drunk.gif" border="0" alt="[drunk]" />

[ January 04, 2003: Message edited by: steppenwolf ]</p>
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Old 01-04-2003, 08:41 AM
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seems to make sense, although it's never the absolute best idea to trust the manufacturer's advice on whether or not to use their products... they switch the subject midway through the article from both HV/HP pumps to only HV pumps. so high-volume oil pumps are ok, then, it's just not the high-pressure ones. good, cause i was worried there (have an aftermarket pump on my Poncho). on the other hand, wouldn't a ferrous cam gear cause wear on a bronze dist. gear, without itself wearing? just wondering.
-z-
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Old 01-04-2003, 08:57 AM
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Talking

It's only offered as another point of view. And, if you can't trust Mellings, you can't trust anyone.

As for their HV pump, it comes with a high pressure or standard relief spring. It is up to the installer to decide which he needs.

CHEV cams walk a lot. You also need to use a HD drive shaft. You need to lubricate the gears before assembly. There are just too many variables to just blanket state that HV/HP pumps have no use.

Now, that is in my opinion of course. Take it as you may.
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Old 01-04-2003, 07:13 PM
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hey, if we can't trust your opinion, who can we trust?
-z-
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Old 01-05-2003, 12:52 AM
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I run high volume pumps(Melling) in every SBC I take the pan off.It is my opinion that there is no such thing as too much oil pressure.My motor gets 85psi cold and 59psi hot,merry x-mas to me.I've heard people tell me it'll wash the bearings.But how will oil(a lubricant)scuff a earing with too much oil??? Now to me oil is the barier between the bearing and journal,you need 10psi per 1000rpm up to 7500rpm any more will just end up back in the pan,so what,I feel better knowing I have more than enough than not enough.I do run a steel sleeve driveshaft though,without that I could kinda see dist.gear damage.
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