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Old 10-28-2008, 10:55 AM
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High volume oil pump

Will a high volume oil pum work with a stock oil pan?

Thanks!

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Old 10-28-2008, 01:30 PM
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yes, but don't use one "just because", they are not really necessary unless you have a really loose build.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:41 PM
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Agree with Jmark. Use a stock pump with a stock pan. It's all you need unless you're road racing in my opinion. With a stock pan and HV pump, even if you don't suck the pan dry, you'll flood the top end and probably encounter oil control problems at the valves. Plus, an HV or HP pump will take more power to turn, putting additional strain on the cam gear. Just my opinion.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:35 PM
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it would help if we had atleast a clue for what car and motor application.......

75% to 90%? of the time a high volume pump is just a standard pump housing with different clearances on the gears set and housing walls so more oil flows per each gear rotation....

agree with the above posts,,,
the majority of motors don't "want" or "need" a high volume pump and it can cause problems....
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:49 PM
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It always amazes me at how things change. Years ago, we built engines on the loose side, and ran 40 or 50 weight oil, sometimes even with STP or some
other additive.

Now, it seems engines are pretty tight and guys run 5w 20 or 0w 30, stuff that's like water. Blows me away that engines live under that stress.

Many new engines (I have a 2003 Dodge SRT-4) are designed to operate with low oil pressure.

It's just above my pay-grade.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:56 PM
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Everbody has an opinion, here's mine.

If your clearances are within standards, a HV pump will not/can not pump more oil to your bearings and top end at the same pressure. It will not fill your valve covers, etc. any faster than a standard pump.
Only a higher pressure pump can pump more volume.... higher pressure through the same size holes means more volume through those holes.

Excess volume from a high volume pump is bypassed from the outlet to the inlet side of the pump in most every pump design.

About 12 years ago, one of the major pump manufacturers (Melling?) did a story about their pumps explaining the designs and functions. (If anybody has reference to the story please let me know)

High volume pumps consumed almost NO more power to turn because the excess volume is bypassed to the intake side,
and when locked into full bypass mode, the recirculated oil gained only 8* (I think it was) after one hour of bypassing. Totally insignificant since there was only a few ounces of oil involved.

They also noted that priming a system with a drill was easily possible even though many people think that a pump at high rpms consumes a lot of hp, but a drill at 4-5000 engine rpm turns the pump fine.
I stand to be corrected, but I think their conclusion was that there was less than 1 hp more needed 5000 rpm.
Insignificant for the engines we hotrodders use.

JMO, but more engines are ruined by too thick of oil than by too thin of oil.
70* 5 wt oil is thicker than 200* 50 wt oil. Cold starts even in the summer are the times when oil must splash out of bearings to lube cams and cylinder walls AND the all important..... valve train. Most people never consider that the upper end has the same clearances even if you have new loose fitting pistons and loose bearings.
If the oil is too thick and cannot get into the right spots, wear results.
5w30, 10w40, or even the 0w40 might be just the thing we all need for engine reliability.......unless you have wide clearances that can tolerate heavier oil.

Want to burn up a brand new car?
Put 20w50 in it. The top end will disolve in 6000 miles.

added
By the way, I spent 30 minutes this morning discussing this exact situation with a Shell Oil engineer.

Last edited by ScoTFrenzel; 10-31-2008 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:12 PM
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My pops has been preaching me your exact post for years, Scot. All to often I think people go on what they hear and not what is fact. I'm still trying to learn all the complexities of the oiling system in a SBC. Has anyone ever tried polishing most of the oil passages including the main cap? Not sure if it does anything but I did this on my 406 build and I'm interested to see my results. I have been using Royal Purple products for a few years now and I have been quite pleased. I'm still going to run a standard volume pump as well.
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:44 PM
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OIL= the rest of the story

Quote:
added
By the way, I spent 30 minutes this morning discussing this exact situation with a Shell Oil engineer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by ScoTFrenzel : Today at 11:09 PM.
Ford dealer had a customer with a burned up engine at 6000 miles. Rebuilt it and sent him out.
6000 miles later another burned up engine.
When pulling the second engine for a complete exchange to a new engine, the mechanic pulled an oil sample which was sent to Shell. They discovered it was 20w50 oil.
The customer was irate with Ford, saying that it was the worst vehicle he had ever owned and would never buy another Ford.
When confronted by the fact he used 20w50 oil, the customer stated he always uses 20w50. Ford informed him that 5w20 Motocraft (synthetic made by Shell) was recommended and that the too thick 20w50 ruined his engines.... and NO MORE WARRANTY if he used heavier oil.

He also told me that a local Ford dealer here includes FREE oil changes with all their new vehicles for the warranty period. (Motorcraft 5w20 synthetic). for this exact reason.
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:41 PM
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I also agree with Scott. I used a Melling HV55 on my built up .30 over 4 bolt 350 in my T-Bucket and am pleased with the oil pressure and oiling charasteristics with 10w-30. No excessive top oiling or any of that sort of thing.
I also have the same pump in my '36 GMC with a built 327 with similar results.
A good compromise between a stock and a HV aftermarket pump would be to use a Z28 oil pump.
Terry
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Old 11-01-2008, 08:21 PM
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I have a customer with a bone stock 88 Escort w/Auto/PS/and A/C. I goofed 2 years ago, and put in 5W30. The very next day he came in, invoice in hand, asking me why I did not put in the 20W50 he had been using for years.

I apologized, told him I forgot and would change it.

He said, "No Way", "I am here to ask you why it runs snappier, and has more power"?

He had switched to 20W50 because of the miles on it, and had not noticed any lack of power, or performance.

I am a believer in using the lighter weight oils.
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Old 11-01-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoTFrenzel
Want to burn up a brand new car?
Put 20w50 in it. The top end will disolve in 6000 miles.

.

Was talking to a friend a few days ago when he stopped by. His '96 Chevy 3/4 ton truck now has 286,000 miles, never rebuilt and has always run 20-50, year around since day one. 30 degree winters and 115 degree summers.

I think Ford just wanted a bogus reason to deny the warranty claim.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
Was talking to a friend a few days ago when he stopped by. His '96 Chevy 3/4 ton truck now has 286,000 miles, never rebuilt and has always run 20-50, year around since day one. 30 degree winters and 115 degree summers.

I think Ford just wanted a bogus reason to deny the warranty claim.
ONE incident does not make a blanket statement for all. Especially since YOU live in the hot desert.
George Burns claimed that he smoked for 92 years.

I can give you specifics of the "Wonder Bread" fleet that bought new Chevy Astro vans several years ago and the WonderBread fleet management mandated my very good friend (the fleet mechanic) threatening him with termination if he did not install 20w50 in the new engines. Iwas standing there when it happened.
He did.
When Chevy replaced the second engine in less than 8,000 miles, GM terminated WonderBread's warranties on their 3 new vans. Fact.
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