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Old 10-21-2008, 02:56 PM
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Holley VS Barry Grant (read the whole email)

Hey all,
Here's some info for all to see....Quoted from my email inbox.... I sent it to the Holley tech e-mail and the Customer service dept.....
I would just like to tell you about the frustrations I have had with my new Holley Street avenger 670 cfm carburetor. I bought it new($387)about 6 months ago, and installed it 3 weeks ago. Truck ran, but not great. You advertise that these carbs are factory tuned and calibrated...well I have to call BS on that. The idle screws were both out a different amount (one was 2.5 turns the other 3.25 turns out!!), the float level was set WAY over the sight plug, I had to turn the float nuts between 2-2.5 turns to get them adjusted (my fuel pressure is 5psi). So I wasn''t very happy with that at all, but the biggest thing I have to tell about is the quality of assembly that is done at your facility. You see, the truck was waaaaay to rich and would backfire,belch and stall, just like back in the old day's when you would have a blown power valve. So I disassembled it and discovered that whoever at your factory assembled it split the first power valve gasket and decided to just put another one on top of the old one!!!! I am not sure how this slipped by your QC department, however it did. I have lost about 15 gallons of fuel (91 oct @ $3.74 per gal), time and money fixing your "factory tuned and calibrated" carb. I would just like to know if you could make it right somehow.
Thank you for your time,

This is from the Holley Guy (name withheld for privacy)
Hi, thank you for your e-mail
For warranty on the Avenger you will need to send it in to Holley
if it is not over 1 year old, it will be @ no charge.
If it is over 1 year old it will have a $75.00 labor charge
You will need to send it to:
Holley Avenger Tech
1801 Russellville Rd
Bowling Green Ky. 42101
we need a copy of your receipt
and a note telling what it is doing
and what engine it is for
Thanks for being a Holley customer
If there is anything else I can help with please let me know


Then this is from me......
I have already fixed your "Out of the Box Factory tuned and calibrated" carb. I was just wondering if you could send me a deal on something to compensate me for my time and money spent. It would not do me any good to send it back now (as I have fixed it), and I am not sure if I could even locate the receipt anyway. Maybe next time I will try a Barry Grant instead.....
Thanks for your time,

This is from the Holley Guy (I won't release his name for privacy)
Sorry I can not do anything about the gas you used or any kind of compensateition
But keep in mind after these carbs are set up they have to be shipped and shippers don’t allways handle them with care
it is common for the settings to get off
Also I don’t know where you can buy a BG carb most places stopped dealing with them becouse of there lack of Qualitly
and if you do get one you will only need to keep the reciept for 90 days after that it will be out of warranty unlike the Avenger lifetime warranty

Thanks

Then this is from me....
I am not sure how my carb could have been as far off as it was (stated in the first e-mail) just by shipping it. As for quality of the Barry Grant's they actually bash Holley also (so its like a merry-go-round).
Barry Grant is available almost everywhere like Jegs http://www.jegs.com/v/Barry+Grant/132, Scoggin-Dickey http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalogsdparts.aspx, GM Performance Parts http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/Pa...inedinput=Carb, and Ebay http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories, just to name a few....


(copied and pasted directly from my in-box including all spelling errors if you caught them)

So HOTRODDERS tell me what ya'll think ..... I totally understand Holley not sending me $$$ for gas, that would be stupid if they did but has anyone else had problems from the get-go with the Avenger series carbs? And finally, tell me what are your thoughts on the statement about BG carbs.....
Thanks for reading this and for your inputs

    Advertisement

Last edited by PutPut72; 10-21-2008 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Holley VS Barry Grant (read the whole email)
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2008, 03:57 PM
Technical Support Barry Grant
 
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Since you invited me I will respond but doubt you will see them on here doing the same. If you look at our post count you will see we have been here quite awile and try to help whenever possible. I guess when the Holley guy made the alleged statements he prob thought it wouldn't go any further or end up posted on the internet but I can tell you that our products can be purchased from over 400 distibutors in the U.S. and many of those redistribute to others that are not direct with us.

One thing about our past QC problems is that we have openly admitted on the boards that we had issues and took steps to correct them. In manufacturing there will always be some issues or someone that cannot be made happy but we are at least here listening and trying to help as well as using your feedback to help improve the QC.

Although our warranty is 90 days [standard with the other carburetor manufacturers] we have warrantied legitimate defects well after the 90 days. I posted awhile back about a guy who had a brand new Holley carburetor that we had modified approx 10 years ago and was having a similar issue to yours. He actually sent the carb back with a note saying he had just taken it from the box and finally got his car running after 10 years and it ran like crap. He thought we had a better product then that but didn't want it back. We flow tested it and found it had a bad pv gasket,replaced it and returned it to him at no charge. We didn't have to do this but you could tell the carb was brand new and it did have a problem.

Now a little insight to what you found on your Holley... we have seen this before and even had the same problem with the pv gaskets. What actually happens is sometimes when tightening the power valve the gasket will split against itself and does not get caught until the pv is later removed. When removed it appears that there are 2 gaskets in place.

Now as far as QC , We are now the official supplier of carburetors to Volvo Penta marine due to issues explained in the link below.

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/r...spx?id=070045T

Last edited by Tech @ BG; 10-21-2008 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:44 PM
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Thats why I stopped using Holley carbs, Lack of quality control. I`ve gotten them with no gaskets on the bowl bolts, bowl bolts so loose you could remove them with your fingers, the worst was buying a new Holley 600 years ago, and tuning the vac sec. with the different spring packs. after about the 10th time flooring it to test them, the plastic bushings on the secondary`s were worn completely out and back then nobody made replacements, not even Holley. And these were 2 cent plastic pieces. Later on I tried a demon. I had some issues with it too, there was trash from the cnc process in the circuits and it took me a while with high pressure carb cleaner to blast them out, but the worst was a front float that won`t adjust properly, no matter where you set it, you couldn`t get it on the mark, when you got it right below the eye sight, and turned the adjustment a fraction, and I mean a fraction as in maybe .003, the level would shoot above the sight as if you turned it a whole half turn. I replaced everything inside the carbs front float bowl and it still has that problem. so after a while I just left it slightly below the eye sight. Other than that it`s been a good carb. Later on I went back to Quadrajets and never looked back.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:50 PM
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I've also had the PV gasket split on me in the past, I found it usually happens when its overtorqued like when you use a wrench on it instead of a screwdriver size handle. The idle mixture screws being out...well you have to adjust it anyways? Your float setting is really a rough adjustment on a Holley if its done dry, the only way to properly set it is with fuel at your vehicles fuel pump pressure and turn the adjuster.

What were you expecting? Holleys need custom tuning to make them work for your application, thats impossible to do at any factory? The carb you bought had a problem, you fixed it...why not ask for a new PV gasket since this was really the only problem you actually fixed? They probably would have sent you one in the mail no questions asked, in hindsight you should have sent them carb back for them to fix? No?

I have to say, its nice to see a major aftermarket parts manufacturer replying on a thread here and displaying some real customer service even if its not a carb he supplied.

Perhaps BG Tech could give courses to a certain Kitcar manufacturer that has frequented this site in the past, they could learn a thing or two. I won't mention any names because I might get sued!

Ahhh screw it...cough... STREETBEAST INC.

Come and get me!
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:06 PM
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The whole statement about BG to me was funny, because I think BG carbs are supposed to be higher quality than Holley.

But wait.... This discussion also get's better... Here is what the Holley guy e-mailed me after I last talked to him...

Have you checked with Summit racing?


(This was where the Holley Reps name was)

Holley Performance Products

BIG HOLLEY LOGO HERE

Tech. Service Rep.
Ext ####


He was referring to the fact that Summit Racing carried BG carbs in the past and no longer does. So I called Summit and talked to a few sales reps, got my info, and then wrote back to Holley.

[B]Then I wrote...

I just called Summit Racing and talked to (Summit Rep name withheld for privacy). He said that Summit does not usually disclose why they stop carrying certain brands but he said he could tell me that it was absolutely NOT a quality issue. More along the lines of a marketing issue.


Well...Holley has not contacted me back but it doesn't matter. I just don't think He thought I would do my homework to disprove his statement he had made about BG. The funny thing is, I don't even own a BG carb (yet). I just don't like it when people state opinion as fact...It kinda bugs me

As for Having to tune my Holley...I have done it a lot so its not a big deal. But they insist on advertising the carbs like they do "Factory tuned and calibrated, Bolt on and Go!"
It would have cost me more time/shipping cost to send the carb back to Holley and have them "fix it".

And the Power V gasket thing...there was clearly (2) gaskets, not one torn in two.

Last edited by PutPut72; 10-22-2008 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 10-21-2008, 08:48 PM
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i would have just been glad to get any response from them i think they are part of a mega-corporation and in some ways have forgoten what got them there-us!- it seems to be happening alot these days everywhere!
on the other hand for me personally its nice to see the bg guy here listening and contributing to the people who use his products and i will consider that in my next purchase!
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:28 PM
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I also have a 670 Street Avenger and...........................It works great.
I got mine off ebay,new. It came with a DVD explaining how to set it up. I set the floats and the idle and it,s perfect.
I would and probably will buy another one.




My engine: 1968 350,1970 041 heads,Flat top pistons,roller tip rockers,hei,mild cam(18in vac),headers,edelbrock intake,and 670 steet avenger .
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Old 10-22-2008, 01:47 AM
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Carbs need setting up when you first run them, unfortunate you got a carb with a problem.
Every application will need tuning and to set the mixture screws is a given.

I think itīs in bad taste to post up e mails you received, especially when the other party wrote in what was a private conversation.

Last edited by malc; 10-22-2008 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 10-22-2008, 04:59 AM
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carb

In this hobby, Nothing and i mean NOTHING, is out of the box bolt on. You cannot believe any manufacturer's claim that there part is ready to bolt on.

I have been doing this for almost 30 years and even the good manufacturers have problems some times.

As the installer (last guy to touch the part) it is your responsibility to make sure the carb is correct. If you lost 15 gal's of fuel trying to fix this problem then it sounds like you really should have taken the car to some one with more knowledge for the install. That is in no way the manufacturers fault that you lack the knowledge to tune the carb.

As far as the statement about BG i cannot comment because i didn't see the orginal E-mail from Holley. I would have my doubts that it was stated like that from Holley. Most guys are instructed by there companys to be careful about things like that due to the liability issues...


BG has issues also, I will say that there past tech guy has been very good here about helping, compaired to the nasty guys you used to get when you called them. I have not bought any BG products for my cars or customer cars in 5 or 6 years because of there service at that time. It might have changed since then???? I don't know.

Keith
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malc
Carbs need setting up when you first run them, unfortunate you got a carb with a problem.
Every application will need tuning and to set the mixture screws is a given.

I think itīs in bad taste to post up e mails you received, especially when the other party wrote in what was a private conversation.

If this is in bad taste, you must have never watched CNBC? They do behind the scene stuff like this all of the time, except they post it on the internet and do a story on TV. Just a quick example, have you ever seen the reports on the scams at Jiffy Lube (a while back)? They had undercover cameras, written reports and the employees names all disclosed. I at least edited the names of the employees out, I do not want to get anyone in trouble, just report.


And for K-star, if you did not read my writing before, all context was taken, copied and pasted, EXACTLY AS WRITTEN in my inbox.

And just to clarify, I lost about 15 gal of 91 oct because I installed the carb at a relatives house and had to drive it back to my house. I got to figure out what was wrong with it along the way home, (luckily I made it, and did not get stuck on the side of the freeway,I also tuned it before leaving my relatives house and that's when I took note how far it was mis-adjusted).

Whoever thinks I have a lack of tuning experience, I'm sorry to say, y'all can stick it.(much cleaner than what I really would have said to ya)

Last edited by PutPut72; 10-22-2008 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:49 AM
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carb

Are you a woman???

Thats what they do. Ask a question "is my *** fat?" Then when you tell them yes,,,they get mad at ya....

You put the post out there asking for opinions. This is the internet, not everyone has the same perspective on issues as you do. If you don't like to here different opinions about what happened to you then don't ask..

I consider a poster that does that a troll, just trying to start a pissing match.


Keith
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:57 AM
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I know exactly how you feel, I purchased a stage 2 Quadrajet from "JET Performance". They are a Carb and Fuel Injection computer chip maker. They advertised that all their carbs are 100 percent flow tested. The carb arrived and I installed it to find that the secondary metering rods were not there. "GONE" They had not been placed in the carb. So much for their claim of flow testing each carb. I called " Jet Performance" only to get No customer service. They made me pay for shipping there and back for a carb I had already bought. The Carb still does not work correctly. They just continue not to answer any written correspondence. This has been 10 years. I know, Get over it right!. No way, I always contact their booth at any trade show and let everyone I know what a down right crappy product they make and how horrible their customer service is. I still waiting for them to send me any type of response. I would settle for a "Sorry". I don't understand why companies just don't give a "----". You would think they want repeat customers. Evidently this is not a high priority to "Jet Performance".

Last edited by Studebaker; 10-22-2008 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:07 AM
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I personally have a Holley 750 dp mechanical secondary carb straight from a swap meet for $30. I did tuning for about a year before it would run right, then I changed engines and had to tune again. I took notes and plug readings, which helped tremendously. Now it runs, I think, perfect. When I was thinking about putting a Holley on it (while building the engine), I was told from the start that it would be a ton of tuning, but once done, there's no way I would go to another carb. Holley tech did help me, also. I think it's very difficult to describe a symptom over the phone or through email. I read and researched, then read and researched some more to tune mine. I have never had a BG, so I can't comment on that. I do love my holley, though!
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Old 10-22-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
Are you a woman???

Thats what they do. Ask a question "is my *** fat?" Then when you tell them yes,,,they get mad at ya....

You put the post out there asking for opinions. This is the internet, not everyone has the same perspective on issues as you do. If you don't like to here different opinions about what happened to you then don't ask..

I consider a poster that does that a troll, just trying to start a pissing match.


Keith
I have no what the He!! you are talking about (you never even read my first post correctly, but I can clearly see you have some sexist issues to deal with first).....Did you wake up this morning to find someone had $h!t in your oatmeal?

I'll quote myself again...."has anyone else had problems from the get-go with the Avenger series carbs? And finally, tell me what are your thoughts on the statement about BG carbs....."
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Old 10-22-2008, 01:51 PM
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Iīve said this before, I have had no problems with my Speed Demon since the day I installed it July 2005.
Bolted it on, adjusted the mix screws using a vac gauge and that was it.
Since then Iīve overhauled it just once although they recommend yearly.
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