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Old 07-08-2005, 11:05 PM
black thumb learner
 
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Holley Electric Choke

I posted previously before about a warm stumble/ stall issue I have in my truck.
I'm thinking now the problem might be choke related, but don't know enough about how it should work.

When I start it up, I have to give a good bit of throttle to release the choke or the fast idle won't kick off.

Maybe the same thing is causing the stall (because that's what it is if I don't let off the gas in time)...

more details here: http://www.hotrodders.com/t65070.html

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Old 07-09-2005, 05:17 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
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Quote:
Doesn't stumble when it's cold, or when driving unless I'm at a long light /coasting for a while first.

Also stumbles when I start and drive after it's warmed up.
First, you are going to have to understand, an electric choke without either a hot air choke stove or coolant heater is a compromise, usually for performance applications.

What you are describing is lean mixture tip-in stumble, i.e. the choke is opening too quickly and with the electric heater (choke cap) is staying open too long (not allowing for partially warm restarts).

The choke is adjustable. The cap has rotation arrows on it to delay the opening (turn CW to lean-CCW to richen). Try rotating the cap (this will most likely take several attempts to get right) to lengthen choke-on time (and you will find settings different for winter as compared to summer). Also adjust the fast idle if too fast. There should have been full instructions with the carb or choke kit.

I cannot remember if HOLLEY offers a choke pull-off kit. This may be necessary if you experience over-loading during warm-up once the correct choke duration time is reached.
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Old 07-09-2005, 05:30 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
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-HOLLEY ELECTRIC CHOKE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS-

(The above will give you the adjustment details)

Quote:
11. On marine engines, the de-choke must be set. With the choke fully closed, open the throttle completely. The choke plate should open about 1/4 (.0.250). This allows air into the engine if the engine should flood, and will allow the engine to start.

If the choke plate does not open the specified amount, carefully bend the lever installed on the throttle shaft in Step 3, until the required opening is obtained. De-choke is preset on automotive applications.
This is the mechanical choke pull-off. Just make sure it is adjusted correctly.
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Old 07-09-2005, 10:46 AM
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Thank you very much! Currently the choke is all the way to the lean (CW), so I'll try bumping it back a notch at a time to see if this goes away.

Quote:
i.e. the choke is opening too quickly and with the electric heater (choke cap) is staying open too long (not allowing for partially warm restarts).
maybe I'm slow, but I found this both interesting and confusing. I thought the elect. heater opened the choke. What do you mean by it's staying open too long?

Thanks again,
Ed
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Old 07-09-2005, 02:57 PM
aka Duke of URL
 
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Quote:
What you are describing is lean mixture tip-in stumble, i.e. the choke is opening too quickly and with the electric heater (choke cap) is staying open too long (not allowing for partially warm restarts).
Quote:
Originally Posted by gawdzilla

...maybe I'm slow, but I found this both interesting and confusing. I thought the elect. heater opened the choke. What do you mean by it's staying open too long?

Thanks again,

Ed
It's all in the manner it has been adjusted. Yours is now presently adjusted very lean. That means at shutdown, the thermatic spring in the choke cap will start to cool. Being adjusted as it is, it will not retract all the way to perform properly during a warm startup. The adjustment to richen the cap will allow for this. It is mostly trial and error until you find the correct adjustment.

I hope I explained that to be understood easily. I am not a very good teacher...
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:15 PM
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hey man, if someone wants to step up and teach someone, I don't knock 'em. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
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Old 07-10-2005, 05:59 PM
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I tried Kultulz' suggestion. As far as I know, the only way to adjust the choke is to turn it CW or CCW. I started all the way CW, now I'm just about all the way back to CCW and I've noticed no difference. Still wants to die when I give it 1/2 throttle or better after warming up and sitting for a few minutes. It's about 90* outside today.

I did find that SOMEONE (maybe me) had the little plastic fast idle screw retainer on the wrong side of the lever and it was holding my idle speed open a bit. Long story short, I spent a lot of time retuning

after messing w/all that, my base timing is 12 and it all totals by 2500.
Vac is reading 18 and steady. Idle rpm ~800 in P.
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Old 07-10-2005, 06:13 PM
aka Duke of URL
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gawdzilla

I tried Kultulz' suggestion. As far as I know, the only way to adjust the choke is to turn it CW or CCW. I started all the way CW, now I'm just about all the way back to CCW and I've noticed no difference. Still wants to die when I give it 1/2 throttle or better after warming up and sitting for a few minutes. It's about 90* outside today.

I did find that SOMEONE (maybe me) had the little plastic fast idle screw retainer on the wrong side of the lever and it was holding my idle speed open a bit. Long story short, I spent a lot of time retuning


Previous Post;

Quote:
Originally Posted by gawdzilla

Problem only happens after sitting more than 5 minutes.

Problem only happens once, then appears to be fine.

However, it stumbles bad enough that the truck will stall if I don't let up
OK...You are describing a lean tip-in stumble after warm-up. Hey, I'm an old guy and sometimes the mind wanders...

If this is doing this after warm-up. you most likely need to adjust the accelerator pump and make sure the vacuum advance is working on your distributor. You have it on ported vacuum I assume? Also make sure the breaker plates slide freely.

At least you found your fast idle problem...

...i guess you want your gratuity back now....
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Old 07-10-2005, 06:22 PM
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[gratuity] lol, no I'll letcha keep it (this time)

I've gone up to a #37 shooter from stock (which is what, 31, 32?)
I have an adjustable vac. advance unit that's brand new. I sure hope it's working, but I suppose that won't hurt to check.

Accel. cam is the orange one, and when I set it on pos. 2 it bogged from a dead stop when I mash the pedal. So I put it back to #1 and that problem went away.

Gonna go check the vac adv. brb. don't wait up for me
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Old 07-10-2005, 06:41 PM
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where's the breaker plate? fwiw this is an HEI (call me dummy)
but either way, the distributor is fairly new as well.

vac adv works fine, now have to see if it does this w/it plugged off.
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Old 07-10-2005, 07:09 PM
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update

update:
vac advance (mr. gasket adjustable) works fine, comes on at about 8" , maxes around 12".

W/the vac advance plugged off, the problem seems to have gone away!!
Seems to because Mr. Murphy is a close friend of mine

However, it does seem to bog a bit on WOT from a stop with the vac. advance blocked off. Barely, but I feel it.

Yes, I'm running ported advance. One time I tried mani and took it offroad, it died trying to mount a hill. I'm hesitant to go back to that after that experience.

Where do I go from here?

Last edited by gawdzilla; 07-10-2005 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 07-10-2005, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gawdzilla
update:
vac advance (mr. gasket adjustable) works fine, comes on at about 8" , maxes around 12".

W/the vac advance plugged off, the problem seems to have gone away!!
Seems to because Mr. Murphy is a close friend of mine

However, it does seem to bog a bit on WOT from a stop with the vac. advance blocked off. Barely, but I feel it.

Yes, I'm running ported advance. One time I tried mani and took it offroad, it died trying to mount a hill. I'm hesitant to go back to that after that experience.

Where do I go from here?
You're runnin 12 degrees initial and all the mechanical advance is in by 2500, what is the total advance? 36? 38? 40? If you're getting a slight bog when going to wot from a stop and this wasn't there when the vacume advance was hooked up to ported then I'd say your mechanical advance rate isn't quite fast enough in the beginning of the curve. I'd play with springs and weights untill you can mash the peddle and get the best pull then add a little ported vacume advance to the mix for part throttle. It sounds like you've got a good idle with 18" vacume at 800rpm,
If this is a heavy rig try downsizing your pump squirter to a 25-I've seen this work a few times on heavy 4X4's. Try one thing at a time.
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Old 07-11-2005, 12:39 AM
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my total is a bit lower than I'd like- but I think it might be the timing light (harbor freight) not reading accurate. I've got only 34 total and it comes in really fast- seems to literally jump from base to max but I don't remember at what speed exactly (2k I think). I thought this was weird.
I've tried combos of springs and I either end up with it all in by 5k, or all in at idle. I even went out and got a new curve kit thinking the weights on this distributor were somehow different than stock (My neighbor gave the dist since mine was toast, I suppose this one could be bad as well but everything looks fresh on it).

I will try your suggestions though and report back what I find. Thanks!

Heavy? LOL
at 4800 lbs, I guess it's heavy
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:34 PM
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Timing curve

I just checked my curve-
my idle is actually at 740/750, not 800. I have two silver springs in the HEI distributor.
I go 24* at 3500 rpm and that's it.
Is something wrong w/my distributor?
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:43 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gawdzilla

I just checked my curve-my idle is actually at 740/750, not 800. I have two silver springs in the HEI distributor. I go 24* at 3500 rpm and that's it.

Is something wrong w/my distributor?
There is something definitely wrong with the advance curve. The distributor needs to be set up on a dist. machine. Any large speed shops in your area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gawdzilla

where's the breaker plate?
I failed to answer this previous question. Mechanical style distributors rely on a plate (called the breaker plate as they used to mount point sets) that pivots to deliver the vacuum advance. Remove your cap and apply vacuum to the advance cannister and you should see the upper plate move towards the cannister. If not, it may be worn or binding.
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