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Old 12-17-2011, 07:13 AM
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Holley Help Please-Almost There-Idle Issues

Holley 4160 list # 80457-8.

I have it installed and runs GREAT.

With regular, fast, and secondary idle screws all backed out it still idles around 700.

It has no vaccum leaks, no binding linkage, and timing is correct.

Where else do I need to look?

The only thing I can find is the secondaries have some slack in the lockout linkage that would allow them to open slightly if there was tension applied to them. I will check that this morning. There shouldn't be any at idle should there?

Could something be plugged up? Ideas please. Thanks.

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Old 12-17-2011, 08:46 AM
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Usually when the idle adjustment is all the way out and it still idles at 700 spells out the timing is too high or there`s a vacuum leak. You could possibly have a intake manifold gasket leak.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:26 PM
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Hmmm. I may have other issues.

I oiled the manifold and carb base, I'll do it again.

Timing is at 8* and kicks back horribly at 12* with no change when the vaccum advance is hooked up.

Back to the drawing board.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:48 PM
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"IF" everything you say is fine....then yes, take a good look at the possibilty of the secondaries being cracked open some. Can U put your thumb on the secondary linkage while it's running and push closed all the way, and see if the idle drops?
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoyt71
Hmmm. I may have other issues.

I oiled the manifold and carb base, I'll do it again.

Timing is at 8* and kicks back horribly at 12* with no change when the vaccum advance is hooked up.

Back to the drawing board.
I would not expect the engine to kick back w/just 12 degrees initial timing. I suspect you may have more initial- and total- timing than you think you have. I'd recommend you check this asap to avoid any problems from detonation from excessive timing.

Take a look HERE to see about the timing tab/damper line, at the bottom of that page there are links to a couple more pages on checking for true TDC and making a timing tape.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:01 PM
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I going against some very informative people here on this subject, but here goes... It may not be timing, secondaries, vacuum leak at all. Not sure what type of linkage your using whether its cable or rod type linkage. The linkage itself may not be allowing the carb to close all the way. Try and disconnect the linkage and see if the idle changes. Also check the accelerate linkage on the carb for binding. (the arm with the spring on it). If it still idles high at 700 rpm. Then use Cobalt's suggestions....
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:30 AM
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Ok. I apologize for not being able to perform all of the suggestions on checking the balancer. I don't have a shop or the needed tools.
I have squirted oil (carb cleaner got me in this mess) all over the intake, adapter (best I can do for now), and carb base and have no vacuum leaks. Linkage is good. Idle and fast idle screws do not touch anything. Secondary idle screw is just touching and turned a 1/4 turn more.

I hooked up a vacuum gauge and adjusted timing until I "JUST" had 19" of vacuum. Any less and I get a lot more hesitation and/or backfire.

"IF" my balancer is right I have 18* initial, 17* mechanical, and 10* vacuum.

Instead of being flush on the front, the outside ring of my balancer is offset about 1/8" to the inside. Is that normal? Like I said, I don't have the tools needed to check it.

I have also turned the timing down as far as 0* on the balancer without a lot of difference in the idle (maybe 200 rpm) and the engine did not like less than where it is now.

I'm not saying I don't have balancer issues, but I should have been able to get around them with all I have done. I don't have any kickback right now either which is odd.

Back the secondary idle screw all the way out? What do you think?
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoyt71
Ok. I apologize for not being able to perform all of the suggestions on checking the balancer. I don't have a shop or the needed tools.
I have squirted oil (carb cleaner got me in this mess) all over the intake, adapter (best I can do for now), and carb base and have no vacuum leaks. Linkage is good. Idle and fast idle screws do not touch anything. Secondary idle screw is just touching and turned a 1/4 turn more.

I hooked up a vacuum gauge and adjusted timing until I "JUST" had 19" of vacuum. Any less and I get a lot more hesitation and/or backfire.

"IF" my balancer is right I have 18* initial, 17* mechanical, and 10* vacuum.

Instead of being flush on the front, the outside ring of my balancer is offset about 1/8" to the inside. Is that normal? Like I said, I don't have the tools needed to check it.

I have also turned the timing down as far as 0* on the balancer without a lot of difference in the idle (maybe 200 rpm) and the engine did not like less than where it is now.

I'm not saying I don't have balancer issues, but I should have been able to get around them with all I have done. I don't have any kickback right now either which is odd.



Back the secondary idle screw all the way out? What do you think?
If you cannot do anything else, take a piece of aluminum wire (soft copper will do) and pull either #1 or #6 plug out (which ever is easier to get to) and use the wire to feel for when the piston is at TDC. You will need to turn the damper over by hand, removing all the plugs will make this easier.

After you're satisfied that you are as close to TDC as you can get, compare the timing tab to the damper line to see if they agree w/TDC. This is not anywhere near as accurate as the linked-to procedures above but it will show gross errors.

AFA the damper being "offset", often the OEM dampers do have a slight difference in the ring to the inner hub like you describe. But what you really want to know is what is the relation of the TDC line on the outer ring to the keyway of the hub. The link I gave you above has that info.

When you say "Back the secondary idle screw all the way out?", are you talking about the throttle blade adjustment screw? If so, page 3- http://www.corvette-restoration.com/...arb_Tuning.pdf has the procedure for setting the secondary throttle blades. If your cam is rowdy you might need to open the secondaries more than what is indicated to let in more idle air to keep the primaries from getting into the transition circuit too much.
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:27 PM
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I have verified that my balancer is moving.

Who makes a quality replacement worth the money? I emailed Damper Dr a couple of weeks ago with no response.

I also found the nylon nut on the fast idle screw was on the wrong side not allowing it to close completely.

Still can't get the idle below 500.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoyt71
I emailed Damper Dr a couple of weeks ago with no response.
Give 'em a holler on the horn....
http://www.damperdoctor.com/Contact_Us.htm
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:25 PM
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May have to. Are there any quality new replacements out there? What about Summit?

Assuming this fixes the high idle, I have a dead spot that shows up more when the timing is retarded from where it is.

I have the Orange cam now and have tried both holes. Which one would be my best bet? It looks like it is getting plenty to me, but the big fireballs it keeps coughing say otherwise.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoyt71
May have to. Are there any quality new replacements out there? What about Summit?
Sure, there are replacement dampers, but some of them are bored in China and are not to spec for the diameter of the crank snout. The thing about using a Damper Doctor piece is that you know General Motors did the boring and the damper has already been successfully installed on a running motor. If not, Damper Doctors wouldn't have it in their shop, right?

I keep reading horror stories of aftermarket dampers being machined incorrectly. The very nature of the damper is that it has to be a tight press fit on the crank snout in order to transfer harmonics from the crank to the inertia ring of the damper to be dissipated. If it's too loose, you can kill the crank. If it's too tight, you could end up with it frozen halfway on the crank snout while trying to install it.

Fellows, it is incumbent on those of us who tinker in this hobby to measure everything we put our hands on. Trust nobody.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:03 PM
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Man check the stop screw under secondaries!!
You have to take carb off to do this,secondaries are probably open too much at idle!!
Jegs or Summit has some good dampers
I check every damper I use
Trust no one is right!
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:39 PM
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Already checked. They are closed.
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:38 AM
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Thought I should update with my fix.

Pulled the carb and took it apart so I could actually see my linkage clearly.

The nylon nut that the fast idle screw goes into was installed in the wrong place and was holding the throttle open. It couldn't be seen until the choke housing was off
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