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Old 02-21-2005, 09:48 AM
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Home Built (sorta) Traction bars

With the help of IAS here on the board, I made up my own traction bars for my Mustang project.
You can see them at www.longbros.com/richjr (big pic warnings BTW)

I went this route since Traction Master's tech guy told me that they would not sell them to me if my car made more than 375hp! Not to metion it was a pain getting info from them. And NO replies to emails I had to call them 3 times.

I also have a shot of my fuel cell pan there. Just click on the recent stuff off the front page.
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Old 02-21-2005, 09:59 AM
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Interesting

Let us know how it works..

OMT
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Old 02-26-2005, 10:30 AM
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I was checking out your site. That's some real nice work you are doing there.
One question though. What about Traction Master's bars was the weak link that they thought it wouldn't hold your power? What did you do different to yours to correct that? Don't misunderstand me I'm not doubting your work just curious on what the improvement areas were.
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Old 02-26-2005, 06:56 PM
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Nice job on the bars but I am afraid that they might give you a binding problem. The pivot points are pretty far apart so the spring will swing in a shorter arc than the bar which will likely bind and cause stress (brakage?) problems. Just a thought.
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Old 02-27-2005, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com
Nice job on the bars but I am afraid that they might give you a binding problem. The pivot points are pretty far apart so the spring will swing in a shorter arc than the bar which will likely bind and cause stress (brakage?) problems. Just a thought.
That's what i was thinking. Really nice work though and if it doesn't break, it'll be so stiff it's gotta hook!
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Old 02-28-2005, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com
Nice job on the bars but I am afraid that they might give you a binding problem. The pivot points are pretty far apart so the spring will swing in a shorter arc than the bar which will likely bind and cause stress (brakage?) problems. Just a thought.
Willy, if you could provide some more info, I'd appreciate it. When you say a binding problem due to the arc, would I need to lower both the pivot points or a single point?
This a first time thing for me, so any constructive criticism is appreciated.
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Old 02-28-2005, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raidmagic
I was checking out your site. That's some real nice work you are doing there.
One question though. What about Traction Master's bars was the weak link that they thought it wouldn't hold your power? What did you do different to yours to correct that? Don't misunderstand me I'm not doubting your work just curious on what the improvement areas were.
No offense taken here, I've got thick skin and appreciate help.
The tubing is thicker and larger diameter, and the brackets are 3/16 as well a sboxed a bit.
The TM set up uses a single bracket on the front. And it was them who told me that they would not work.
http://tractionmaster.com/app.html
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Old 02-28-2005, 11:31 AM
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If I could get to my photo album or Journal I could paste a cartoon on here to show you what I am talking about. You can do it yourself w/ a compass and piece of paper. Draw a sketch of your suspension showing a side view of the spring and T-bar. Now take the compass and put the point A the front pivot point of the spring and the pencil @ the center of the spring where the T-bar attaches. Now draw an arc up and down from the at-rest spring position. Re position the compass point @ the front pivot joint of the T-bar and set the pencil @ the same starting point for the last arc and trace another arc. You will see that the two lever arms will trace different arcs which represent where each wants to be horizontally @ each vertical displacement. Since they are solidly attached, they both can't be at their desired new location so either nothing can move or something will break and each will traverse their independent arc.

For a setup like you made, the ideal would be to have the centerlines of the two front pivot points on exactly the same plane. That would still not be totally correct since the T-bar will stay exactly the same length whereas the distance from the front pivot point to the center bracket on the spring will lengthen and shorten as it bounces. You need another degree of freedom in that linkage setup to get the action you are after and I can't off hand see how to do it with that T-bar setup.
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Old 02-28-2005, 11:53 AM
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A 2-3" rod with heim joints would do it, muck like an anti-roll bar on a road race car is attached....at least I think it would work. What do you think Willy? Oh, and the bar may need a positive connection to the diff housing.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:03 PM
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Ok, I get it.
I was shooting for a larger "copy" of the Traction master setup, since it was used on leaf spring cars.

I'll be doing some calculations. Thanks.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXS
A 2-3" rod with heim joints would do it, muck like an anti-roll bar on a road race car is attached....at least I think it would work. What do you think Willy? Oh, and the bar may need a positive connection to the diff housing.
What you are suggesting would place two pivot points on one end, correct?
This would allow the bar to "swing" in and out ( front and back )a bit.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:06 PM
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I think I see Willy

If the forward mounting point of the bar was directly under the forward mounting point of the spring then there would be less likely of a bind..

I am thinking like if it was a 4bar with one bar being the spring and the other bar being a shaft or rod as it were..the front part of the spring does not give much "action" the springing being taken care of in the rear of the spring..

Yeah wish the journals were back..

OMT
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:49 PM
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Right, it needs to move forward and back. The way their setup is I see no way for the diff to move up and down. As far as I see in my head they have locked the rear end almost solid to the chassis. I don't think it will break anything(No ramping!), I just think the ride will be extremly harsh.
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:25 PM
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What you are describing are the old tried and true 'slapper' bars.

They bolt solidly to the spring mounting plate and extend up to the front of the spring with a big rubber bumper on the nose. If the rear tries to wrap up, the rubber bumper hits the spring or frame and prevents further rotation. The spacing on the bumper is set to allow free movement in normal driving but to hit when severe rear housing rotation is encountered.

The ideal traction bar system prevents 100% of axle tube rotation but allows 100% free movement of the rest of the suspension system as originally designed.

For leaf springs, they make floaters likethese

but to me that's too much jewelry.

There is a recent new design that has all the benefits of the perfect bar described above and is very simple. Here is a site that describes how they are made and how they work.



I think if you do a search on the board ther are a couple of guys who have made them and have websites showing how it is done.

I like to use good old ladder bars and have developed a couple of mounting methods that allow them to work well on leaf springs. If you PM me with your email address I will send a copy of a tech article I wrote showing how they are built.

There is a lot of info on this site on this topic. Also, look at this.

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Old 03-02-2005, 09:37 AM
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Good Reading!

Thanks for the links.
I've been thinking some more about this.
Since the rear of the springs are held on by a "shackle" type setup, wouldn't this allow for the arc to adjust to the bars (as opposed to just the flexing of the springs)?
The two pivot points on the rear shackle would seem to allow for some for and aft movement.
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