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Old Fool 08-06-2008 07:33 PM

Home made SAS ?
 
Being the cheap old geezer I am, I plan to put together a home brewed concoction of parts for a poor mans supplied air system.

I have had a Accuspray 240 (85 cfm @ 8psi)for a number of years and plan to use it as the air source.
Couple it up to a Turbine Products vinyl hood assembly and 50 ft. of their supply hose.
I plan on putting a 'Y' valve directly to the the supply outlet for the hose and divert any excess air volume to atmosphere.
http://www.plantfactorygardencenter....rge/297419.jpg

The hood assy is $85 and the hose is $65.

So the way I got it figured for $160 + shipping I can have a SAS.


Am I missing anything or will this system work ?

BOBCRMAN@aol.com 08-06-2008 08:50 PM

Check the archives. This subject has been discussed before.
Back in the day I used a surplus mask and an old Electrolux vac. for supplied air power. Spraying the original Imron finishes.

robs ss 08-07-2008 03:11 AM

Theres a difference in a supplied air pump used for breathing air and getting breathing air off from a regular air compressor or the system your using.

There is some risk involved in using supplied air, and as far as rigging up your own system from the pump your talking about, you increase the risk.

To many things can go wrong, I wouldn't attempt it.

I worked close to 30 years with supplied air, scba, negative and positive type respirators.

We trained people on how to use them and we also did all the maintenance on the systems.

Supplied air is not something you want to experiment with, just don't go there.

Rob

http://www.1969supersport.com

shine 08-07-2008 06:17 AM

i use a bullard hood. about 35 dollars. it has a t to run my gun on a short hose. my compressor is about 100 ft from my booth. has a good filter and works great. i do not use it daily so the air quality is fine. i only have 1 hose to worry about and it is attached at my waist.
the hoods are replaceable for about 14 dollars.

Old Fool 08-09-2008 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robs ss
Theres a difference in a supplied air pump used for breathing air and getting breathing air off from a regular air compressor or the system your using.

There is some risk involved in using supplied air, and as far as rigging up your own system from the pump your talking about, you increase the risk.

To many things can go wrong, I wouldn't attempt it.

I worked close to 30 years with supplied air, scba, negative and positive type respirators.

We trained people on how to use them and we also did all the maintenance on the systems.

Supplied air is not something you want to experiment with, just don't go there.

Rob



http://www.1969supersport.com

Please explain how a pass through turbine pump can make the air unacceptable for breathing. It is a turbine, not a piston compressor.

Thanks!

oldred 08-09-2008 08:58 AM

Obviously you are already aware of it but air from a piston compressor should NEVER EVER be used for breathing air without the proper filters, regulator equipment and Carbon Monoxide monitors! There are engineered systems out there that do use compressor air and these are OK but attempting to use compressor air without the right equipment designed for the purpose can be deadly! If it is properly filtered then air from a turbine compressor should be fine unless the air has to pass over/around the motor after being filtered. This just means the air quality should be OK and there are many other things to consider, such as is there ANY way any part could malfunction in any way and cause the pressure to rise to any significant level inside your hood? Rob is right too many things can go wrong so it is best not to attempt to do this although some people have made them work (unfortunately some just THINK they are working properly, one in particular that I know of). If you do build your own be very careful and look at what might go wrong at any point and remember you will be using an untested design and maybe betting your life that you have it working properly, the stakes are high!

shine 08-09-2008 10:47 AM

what ever you use get a good filter set up. my last filter is an old toilet paper filter. compressed air is not really the way to go but i figure i only use it several times a year for short periods. i have a new set up going together for the blast booth using a squirrel cage and ice bucket. need some a/c in there :sweat: my use it in the paint booth.

oldred 08-09-2008 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shine
my last filter is an old toilet paper filter.


No No, you are supposed to use NEW toilet paper!!! :D



Carbon Monoxide is a real danger when using an air compressor and a filter won't help that, a Carbon Monoxide monitor should always be incorporated into the system.

shine 08-09-2008 12:32 PM

i was wondering why the carbon monoxide smelled so bad . my exposure in the booth is about like a trip to dfw and the air there. i'm really wanting to finish the a/c unit :sweat:

OneMoreTime 08-09-2008 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOBCRMAN@aol.com
Check the archives. This subject has been discussed before.
Back in the day I used a surplus mask and an old Electrolux vac. for supplied air power. Spraying the original Imron finishes.

Yup..I got a similar vac from McMaster Carr and a 50 foot hose and I have a surplus Mine Safety full face mask..works fine for me..Just an FYI when one has to get the certification to sell a unit as a SAS it costs a lot of money to get the certification..Soo that is why they cost so much..That and the liability insurance the maker needs to carry ... :pain:

Sam

scrimshaw 08-09-2008 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldred
Carbon Monoxide is a real danger when using an air compressor .

Hi Oldred
Can you explain why?

oldred 08-09-2008 02:27 PM

I have heard a couple of different explanations about what causes this and one night at a mine safety training class I attended there were two MSHA "experts" on mine air quality that nearly exchanged blows after a heated argument about the reason the Carbon Monoxide is present but there was no disagreement about whether or not it is there, the fact that the monitors are on the compressor systems bears that out. In most (but not ALL!) cases the levels are low enough to not be dangerous but without the monitor you would have no way of knowing. It is my understanding it forms when air containing contaminants (contaminants in the intake air plus oil, carbon build-up, etc from the pump) is compressed and heated by the pump. In any case it is there but the real question would be in what amounts? I thought I would do a quick search at OSHA and see what I could find and turned up a lot of info, here are a few from OSHA and some I just came up with on the net.

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/carc_pai...I19860303.html



http://www.ecompressedair.com/librar...controls.shtml (bottom of page)


http://www.nysdot.gov/portal/page/po...-breathing-air

scrimshaw 08-09-2008 02:45 PM

Very interesting, I would never of guessed that would be a problem. Do you think that 'oil-less compressors' would still be susceptible to this problem?

oldred 08-09-2008 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrimshaw
Do you think that 'oil-less compressors' would still be susceptible to this problem?


Most likely not but the air would still need to be filtered and it should not be attached to a sealing type face mask unless it used with an approved type regulator designed for breathing air. A regulator failure on the line going to a sealed face respirator could easily cause serious injury or even be fatal and a regulator designed for normal air use would not be nearly accurate or dependable enough at pressures that low.

fireboat 08-09-2008 03:53 PM

I believe the Accuspray system has a separate air intake through the filter and does not draw air across the motor which is good.
You also need to make sure that your hose to pump connection does not get overly hot as it could cause the hose to offgas potentially toxic vapors.
You are right in placing a y-valve to vent surplus air. 8psi is way too much. Many positive pressure SCBA systems have a static pressure of only .9-1.4psi in the facepiece. Of course the hood should allow extra air to exit without building up pressure.
I built a fresh air system using an Ametek motor and pump (the same as the one in the Hobbyair system), light ribbed medical ventilator hose and a MSA mask. It works absolutely great. With a full hooded bunny suit, gloves and the fresh air system I feel very safe from iso's (but hot!).
If you can restore a car, you can build a fresh air system. It's not rocket science but you have to use due diligence, understand what you are doing and know the risks you are taking. Actually, for most people it is better to buy a system as the cost of the parts can approach that of a ready made system. You have the motor assembly already so it makes financial sense to make your own. I lucked out on a great deal on the motor and I had the mask already.


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