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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2009, 08:16 PM
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I think the hobbyair start out at about $390 for the outfit with a half-mask, this is for the complete ready to use system. When you consider this is less than the cost of a quality spray gun and even less than a gallon of high end paint for a properly engineered system it is not expensive at all.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2009, 10:06 PM
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still four times what I paid !!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Two things to consider, well three actually, one is that you also want to filter the air AFTER it leaves the flow device because the air could very well be contaminated with particles of all kinds of crap from the motor/turbine, look it over good. Another thing to consider is that you need to make absolutely sure that there is no way the pressure could rise to more than a couple of PSI inside the hood or you could seriously hurt yourself. Third, if you overlook something or simply make a mistake with this thing you could very well kill yourself, you will be betting your very life that you have it right! An economy supplied air system does not cost all that much and when you subtract what you will have in a home made system it will not cost much at all, it would be quite cheap for the assurance and peace of mind it would bring when you are surrounded by those VERY toxic paint fumes.
Good point Red, I am sure my turbine vanes are full of crap from spraying.
I would use a good filter on the discharge side though, but I wonder how the air would smell? After all, this was used to spray paint and has sucked in over spray every time I used it.
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Old 08-08-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi43
still four times what I paid !!

But for an extra $290 you have a new, clean, professionally engineered system that is ready to use and will work and work properly, for instance do you know how much positive pressure you have in your mask? Do you have any idea how much pressure is safe? Excess positive pressure can be harmful over time. You say it is the same pump and maybe it is OR maybe it is the same external case with parts made of different materials inside meant for a different purpose, I have no idea if it is the same but do you? I am not trying to say your system is dangerous but I think the questions I ask are legitimate when you consider how much is at stake here and for the price of a gallon of paint a person can have a real engineered and ready-to-use system rather than a collection of parts that look as if they probably will work, they very well might but? Again I am not trying to argue that your system is no good but the facts are that you are using a pump that was built for a different purpose and there is more assumption here than engineering that the collective parts are going to perform properly. Anyone considering trying to build their own system should consider the real possibilities of unforeseen problems rather than just glowing reports of a cheaper home built system that may or may not be working as good as the owner thinks, anyone considering doing this needs to ask "am I willing to bet $290 on my health and maybe my life that I will get it right"? Remember if any of the system is built using the wrong parts or materials any particles, chemicals or lubricants that enter will be pumped directly into the user's lungs, add to that the possibilities of overly high, or too low, positive mask pressure and $290 becomes a real bargain.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2009, 10:26 PM
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First of all, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to design a positive pressure face mask. I am not a scientist , but I am a professional in my trade.
(tool maker for what it's worth )
You obviously don't have full compressor pressure going to the mask !! Clean air basically flows by your face at a constant rate, and you breathe in what you need. Any excess air or pressure, is expelled by the one way valve in front of the mask.
If what you're saying is true, then I guess riding down the road with the wind blowing in your face is very hazardous !!
As far as breathing particles ?? You're in a BODY SHOP environment !! You'll breathe in more particles in the thirty seconds it takes putting on your fresh air system on than the whole time wearing it.
These pumps are oil less, so the chances of breathing in oil are nil !!
You'll get more oil in your system firing up that old Chev than you would painting fifteen cars.
Sometimes common sense can save you lots of money, but if you have lots of it, go ahead and waste it on some gadget that will most likely be made and engineered in China and will be of inferior quality.
Having said that, I would not go out and design an SRS system (air bags ) for my car !!
Dan

www.dantechfabricating.com

Last edited by hemi43; 08-08-2009 at 10:37 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2009, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi43
First of all, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to design a positive pressure face mask. I am not a scientist , but I am a professional in my trade.
(tool maker for what it's worth )
You obviously don't have full compressor pressure going to the mask !! Clean air basically flows by your face at a constant rate, and you breathe in what you need. Any excess air or pressure, is expelled by the one way valve in front of the mask.
If what you're saying is true, then I guess riding down the road with the wind blowing in your face is very hazardous !!
As far as breathing particles ?? You're in a BODY SHOP environment !! You'll breathe in more particles in the thirty seconds it takes putting on your fresh air system on than the whole time wearing it.
These pumps are oil less, so the chances of breathing in oil are nil !!
You'll get more oil in your system firing up that old Chev than you would painting fifteen cars.
Sometimes common sense can save you lots of money, but if you have lots of it, go ahead and waste it on some gadget that will most likely be made and engineered in China and will be of inferior quality.
Having said that, I would not go out and design an SRS system (air bags ) for my car !!
Dan

www.dantechfabricating.com
I'm also a toolmaker, fabricator. I have an SAS hood system and use it for everything, and spent 20 years in nuclear power plants, wearing all of the different types of respirators, positive pressure, negative pressure, 1/2 face, full face, papr, supplied air, and scba.

I have been trained and did operate two different types of fit systems, did the maintenance and inspections on all of the above I just mentioned.

I have worked in a lot of different situations with different types on.

In a Nuclear power plant they have the respirator game down to a fine science. If they can find something leaking through a respirator seal that a human can't see or smell (loose contamination or airborne contamination) then filtering out dirt and fumes is a given.

1/2 or full face respirators are okay in some situations, but a person should use a supplied air hood if possible.

For a couple of reasons, less stress on the person, and you don't have to worry about a fit, or seal leakage, or facial hair.

I'm not saying not to use a respirator, even if your doing a little bit of rattle canning, use a respirator if you don't have the supplied air.

As for your supplied air setup, it sure looks like it will work, I'm not real sure what might get through your hoses compared to a regular supplied air hose.

Supplied air needs to be kept clean, connections and hoses need a quick visual before using. The hood itself and the hose going into needs a good visual. It needs to be treated with respect.

I keep my air pump in the lower level of my house, no risk of exhaust, smoke, fumes coming back through.

After what I have seen while working with supplied air, I would never try to build a set up, to much to go wrong.

Rob

http://www.1969supersport.com
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robs ss
After what I have seen while working with supplied air, I would never try to build a set up, to much to go wrong.
Rob
I agree, one thing most people seem to not consider when building a supplied air system is carbon monoxide. In a piston powered unit the lubricating oil can actually get so hot that it vaporizes and introduces carbon monoxide into the air system. That is why units that use such a system have a carbon monoxide detector.

Vince
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 07:10 AM
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I agree that a full face is the way to go ! When I first made my system, that's what I used. Unfortunately, I don't have a big fancy downdraft booth, and it was extremely difficult for me to paint because of lack of visibility. The mist of the paint would cover the lens of the face shield.
You have to keep in mind that my setup is strictly for home use, and only gets used about 10 times a year. I am concerned about Isocyanate absorption through my eyes, but I guess there's risks to anything one does.
I could always quit the hobby all together and get into something safe like stamp collecting, but then there's still a risk of getting some disease from licking all those stamps !! LOL
Dan
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 08:31 AM
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Didn't know it was possible to overcomplicate something so simple.
A two dollar bilge blower(sealed motor, no added contaminates) from the bay with a coffee filter over the inlet located in an area where gets fresh air will supply all the air you need. A leftover 120v-12v converter from your last cellphone for power.
Want high tech? Using an organics respirator for a filter, just hang the blower on your belt with a 12v drill battery. Eliminate having to drag the hose around with you.
A large plate sand blasting hood with the antipitting screen removed makes an excellent mask. Racing tearoffs take care of the overspray problem. Just don't throw them in your fresh paint.


By the way, you're not supposed to lick them stamps you're collecting unless you got them from Dr. Leary.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi43
If what you're saying is true,
First off I am not "Saying" anything I am just pointing out a few things a person needs to consider before attempting to do this, I never said your system don't work. If I were to "say" anything about doing this it is that assumption instead of verification is the biggest hazard, such as assuming a pump meant for a different purpose is the same as one meant for breathing air just because it appears the same. Again I am not saying your system does not work but what I am doing is pointing out things like when someone says when describing the pump used, "Quote"- "is EXACTLY what the high-end fresh air systems use" when they don't know that for a fact. The pump you used may be the same or even if it is not it may still be safe to use but when someone's health is at stake is it wise to state assumptions as verified facts? All I am "Saying" is that to assume certain components are safe to use and are used in the right ways then bet your life that you are right could be risky. If you feel safe with your system fine but I think anyone considering doing this should think twice about simply copying what someone else is doing and look at all the possibilities first. "Aw that's good enough", "this should work" ok and "he said that will work" may be ok for working on cars or some such but when a person's well being is at stake it pays to ask questions and be a bit more careful.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2009, 09:03 AM
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I just used my CPAP machine, Set the machine outside and ran the hose through a hole in the wall.

A CPAP for those lucky enough not to know is a Continuous Positive Airway Pressure system for people with sleep apena. It has a blower a hose and a mask. The blower is medical grade, the whole thing is designed to pressurize your airway so you don't snore.
It works great and I already had it
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