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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2012, 06:20 AM
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lowering hood

wow at first i didnt get it...how could raising the hood where it needs to be lower work?...then it hit me...that shim is moving the front of the hood up..away from the locked in position.....therefor making the hood go down farther before it is in place...if it goes down farther so does the rear..

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2012, 07:11 AM
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This is how to look at it, the shim is moving the hinge further down, it is allowing the hinge to "close" more, thus lowering the hood. But it is affecting ONLY the back of the hood, it isn't doing a thing to the front. Lowing the front is ALL about lowing the latch and hood bumpers at the corners.

Brian
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
YES that would raise the hood.

But hold on here, what kind of car are you talking about? If it's an older car you don't need to do this, you need to "rotate" the hinge back to lower the hood. This lowers it MUCH, MUCH more than simply pushing the hinges down.

Brian
This is completely backwards from the way you would think it should be done. No wonder we all struggle with it. Thanks for the insight!
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparfever
This is completely backwards from the way you would think it should be done. No wonder we all struggle with it. Thanks for the insight!
No problem.

Brian
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
I put a really thick shim so that it would drastically lower the hood. If I wanted to align it properly it would have been thinner. You can use a washer too, that way it wouldn't look so funky.

Brian
Your absolutly right shims do look funky.but the true pros would bend the hinge or the mounting surface to bring it up...If I wanted to lower that corner I would simply push the hood open a little farther than it wants to go.(bending both just a little)...OR if the corner is to low I would stick a piece of wood between the hinge and CLOSE the hood a little more than it wants to go .....works every time....kinda like fixing a sprung door.....when I see shims I see inexperianced help doing cobbled up repairs,especially in a car that shouldnt have ANY ,repaired or not....I guess back when shims were used at the factory to get panels to fit,they were exceptable to most but not now days.Sorry Brian I just cant go along with this one its like someone showing off a duplicolor paint job and recomending everyone use it.....
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
Your absolutly right shims do look funky.but the true pros would bend the hinge or the mounting surface to bring it up...If I wanted to lower that corner I would simply push the hood open a little farther than it wants to go.(bending both just a little)...OR if the corner is to low I would stick a piece of wood between the hinge and CLOSE the hood a little more than it wants to go .....works every time....kinda like fixing a sprung door.....when I see shims I see inexperianced help doing cobbled up repairs,especially in a car that shouldnt have ANY ,repaired or not....I guess back when shims were used at the factory to get panels to fit,they were exceptable to most but not now days.Sorry Brian I just cant go along with this one its like someone showing off a duplicolor paint job and recomending everyone use it.....
We are all entitled to our opinion. The thing is, if someone doesn't understand how this could be done, could they understand how to bend the hinge? Also, we are talking about a concept where you can quickly adjust something without any damage, without any steep learning curve, with just a quick check one can see if the panel is going to be aligned at all.

And for someone who isn't as talented as you who could be reading this, the shim is a quick fix that most anyone is capible of doing.

I certainly see your point in that making it work by correcting the problem is the "best" way to go, while putting a shim there is the "bestest".

There are PILES of shims on a sixties GM car, do you eliminate all of them when restoring a car? No, unless you are making some mind blowing show car you would be using stacks of them on the front fenders for instance. What is one more on the trunk hinge to make a perfect fit? I don't know, I just don't see that big of a deal but also see your point and agree that you could eliminate them by bending the hinge.

Brian
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2012, 01:27 PM
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Man did you get me thinking about this, "Real pros" don't do this. Wow that was a zinger to push me off the plate. LOL I walked away going holy crap I'm a "real pro" why would I be doing this? Then I got to thinking about WHEN I will do it and when will I recommend it, it's simple, I do it or recommend it when it is TOO LATE to bend the hinge! If you are assembling a new hood that has been painted and you are working on a late model car where you try to bend something and it folds the hood in half, you shim it instead.

I put one on the trunk lid of my Gran Sport, why, because it was all painted and new rubber in and I wanted to bring the back down a little without damaging the body and paint that I had FINALLY gotten done.

Geeeez now I can get back to work.

Brian
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:26 PM
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Here is an example, this is the trunk on my Gran Sport. It was all painted, and aligned,but with the new rubber it didn't fit as well and was sticking up a bit. I put a 1/32" shim (used in wheel alignments) painted red so it doesn't sand out much and made the lid fit perfect, I mean PERFECT, it is literally not the thickness of the paint off, it is flawless in height.

The car is FULL of shims, there were piles of shims on these cars, what's one more 1/32 one?

Just how I see it.

Brian
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2012, 06:31 AM
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LOL brian, adjusting panels after thier painted can be quite frustrating thats true too.....Just to show you what can be done by bending ,if you look at the pic next to my avitar you'll notice the hinges on my 48...their out of an 02 Grand Am .....No they didnt fit at all ,not even close but I didnt have a pair of 48 hinges soooooooo,out came the torches ,these required a little more than some slight tweeking,but a little here and a little there then a little more and wallaaa there you go....OH ,and no shims..
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:52 AM
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Shimming of all body panels and even bodies has been going on since the first car was hand built. (same can be said for home building). Ever time I disassemble a vehicle, I collect all the shims right along with nuts, bolts and special fasteners, for future use. When I retired and started building/restoring vehicles with my Bud, door, hood and panel alignment intrigued me a bit. My Bud, a retired master tool and die maker, had a great eye for determining what had to be done to make those perfect lines and at first, I always thought he was going in the wrong direction, but I soon learned that he was always right. Hard to learn that up is down and left is right!!

Trees
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
LOL brian, adjusting panels after thier painted can be quite frustrating thats true too.....Just to show you what can be done by bending ,if you look at the pic next to my avitar you'll notice the hinges on my 48...their out of an 02 Grand Am .....No they didnt fit at all ,not even close but I didnt have a pair of 48 hinges soooooooo,out came the torches ,these required a little more than some slight tweeking,but a little here and a little there then a little more and wallaaa there you go....OH ,and no shims..
I'm wondering, if when you get that car all painted and assemble with the rubber and find the lid high, are you going to remove the hinges and heat them, bend them and repaint them and re-install?

Brian
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
YES that would raise the hood.

But hold on here, what kind of car are you talking about? If it's an older car you don't need to do this, you need to "rotate" the hinge back to lower the hood. This lowers it MUCH, MUCH more than simply pushing the hinges down.

Brian
Well I get to bring this thread back to life. I said I would try this in a couple of days and get back to you. Looking back I see I said that on January 13 of this year......and I finally, two days ago, got to the point in my first ever paint job of aligning the hood. Turns out the learning curve was steeper than I thought But thanks to Brian and his tutorial on hood alignment the passenger side too high and the driver side too low problem that has bugged me for years is solved, and it was easy, too! It only took an 1/8" shim at the forward bolt of the passenger hinge and a 1/16" shim at the aft bolt of the driver hinge and the hood closed perfectly. Many thanks Brian, you took the struggle out of that issue!!
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2012, 08:50 AM
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Awesome, I Love it when a plan comes together!

Brian
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2012, 11:53 AM
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Shimming down is an option but in good restoration shops shimming on hoods and decklids is a no-no. If it appears it needs one there's usually always a way to fix it without resorting to shims. I can't remember the last time I put a shim in a hood/decklid. But for DIY'ers I can see the importance of shimming down.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:55 PM
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There are restoration shops who wouldn't dream of using plastic filler too. You are right though, the shim should be a last resort. I know I bend hinges to correct it too, however when a mistake has been made and the car is painted and done, a shim properly placed just isn't that big of a deal. As I have said, the car has STACKS of shims to make fenders fit at the factory, STACKS I have seen a half inch of shims on original cars. So a neatly placed shim to make your hood or trunk fit perfect just isn't a big deal. When I put my hood back on after having the hinges powder coated the back was high for some reason, I couldn't adjust it down without removing the hood and hinges to hog out holes or something so lowering it with a shim was fine with me.



Brian
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