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Old 12-01-2013, 10:19 AM
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HORRIBLE grinding noise, no start

I have a sbc 355 i just did a head and intake swap on. Dart iron eagle heads, New comp magnun roller tip rockers, new valve springs, new pushrods, valve seals, etc,and a new eddy performer rpm intake. Got it all bolted up, wired up, lines and hoses ran, initial timing set to 10* BTDC and she fired right up. Ran fine, timing needed a little adjustment, but ran fine. I used lucas oil break in additive and did the normal 20 mins at 2500 rpm just to be safe.

Decided I would take it around town to see how she ran, and as soon as i turned onto the main road I knew something was wrong. She ran like *******. Popping, backfiring, low end bog, etc. Parked it and tried to adjust the carb. The next morning I went to start it up, and it would not start, just a big backfire and the carb caught fire. So i tried to advance the timing by turning the dizzy and when I tried to crank it over it made this terrible grinding kind of noise. Not the kind of grind a starter makes when it doesn't engage properly, and the engine was turning, but would not fire. SO i removed the dizzy, bumped the engine over to TDC on num 1 cylinder, backed it up to 16* BTDC, and dropped the dizzy back in with the rotor facing num1 cylinder. Went to crank it over, made the exact same noise, still wont start. Any ideas on what it could be? What should I try next? Next day off i planned to drop the starter and inspect it adn the flexplate, if theyre fine gona drain the oil and look for metal. HELP please
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:25 AM
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Can you at least tell where the noise is coming from, or even which end of the motor? If it's not the flexplate or converter, I'd look at the timing chain/cam gear. Did you use the lock plate or loctite? Is it a chain or gear drive?
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:35 AM
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nova,

It is a chain drive, but I did not build the bottom end. The engine had less than 20k on it when i purchased the car, and was in good health and very clean so i just bolted the top end stuff on. its the same cam and lifters that came in it,, and i didnt have te timing cover off. I havent been able to really tell where the noise is coming from. Ill need the old lady to turn the key for me while i get under the hood and listen. What could be causing the noise from the flexplate or converter?
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:03 AM
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can you post a video? or at least find the area where the noise is coming from? could end up being a guess fest
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:12 AM
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yea, ill see if i can get one tonight after work. But, based on what ive read and novas suggestions, you dont think this is anything internal, right? no chance on a spun bearing or something id have to pull the motor for? i dont have a garage i work in a parking lot and have to lug all my tools from the spare bedroom lol
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS View Post
I'd look at the timing chain
That was my first thought, that the chain is loose enough to jump a cog. Check for bent pushrods. As you said, you didn't pull the timing cover, so the builder could have changed out the timing set for a high-mile unit to sell the motor.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:23 PM
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i pulled the valve covers and everything looked fine. i know id have to pull the pushrods out to check for a bent one. just a thought.. could it possibly be lifters stuck in their bore causing the screech/grind or would the engine still run, just not very well? its just weird to me that it ran fine on break in, revved fine, and idled fine til i punched the gas to enter the main road.
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:37 PM
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I doubt it is starter or flywheel related as they would have no effect on how it runs. You said it was running crappy after you turned onto the main road, was it also making the noise at that point.

When it cranks, other than the noise, does it seem to be cranking normally.

Are you sure you got the distributor back in correctly. I really don't understand why you pulled it back out if the car was running in that position prior. You may have caused a new issue. Did you crank it with the distributor out to see if it still made noise. I had a car a long time ago that the distributor bushing was screaming.
Personally at this point I would pull the valve covers, have someone crank it and make sure everything is moving and see if the noise is coming from the valve train. My guess is you hurt the cam or valve train.

What does the oil look like. Did you dump the break in oil. Is there any glitter in the oil.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clwhoops44 View Post
I have a sbc 355 i just did a head and intake swap on. Dart iron eagle heads, New comp magnun roller tip rockers, new valve springs, new pushrods, valve seals, etc,and a new eddy performer rpm intake. Got it all bolted up, wired up, lines and hoses ran, initial timing set to 10* BTDC and she fired right up. Ran fine, timing needed a little adjustment, but ran fine. I used lucas oil break in additive and did the normal 20 mins at 2500 rpm just to be safe.

Decided I would take it around town to see how she ran, and as soon as i turned onto the main road I knew something was wrong. She ran like *******. Popping, backfiring, low end bog, etc. Parked it and tried to adjust the carb. The next morning I went to start it up, and it would not start, just a big backfire and the carb caught fire. So i tried to advance the timing by turning the dizzy and when I tried to crank it over it made this terrible grinding kind of noise. Not the kind of grind a starter makes when it doesn't engage properly, and the engine was turning, but would not fire. SO i removed the dizzy, bumped the engine over to TDC on num 1 cylinder, backed it up to 16* BTDC, and dropped the dizzy back in with the rotor facing num1 cylinder. Went to crank it over, made the exact same noise, still wont start. Any ideas on what it could be? What should I try next? Next day off i planned to drop the starter and inspect it adn the flexplate, if theyre fine gona drain the oil and look for metal. HELP please
I would definitely check the lifters/bores and make sure they are not the problem. Also, if the lifters are hydraulic and you are running a Fram oil filter, change the filter. I have had bad experience with Fram on a solid lifter setup loosing oil prime and no oil pressure at startup. If that happens with a hydraulic lifter, it will run like crap not to mention the bearings. I'm not trying to open up a Fram oil filter argument (that has been done on here numerous times) but I wanted to give you something to look at.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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t bucket,

it wasnt making the screeching/grinding noise while driving, just a lot of popping and backfiring and ran like a pig. I was told i should advance the dizzy and see if it helped. i tried to loosen up the clamp and turn the dizzy counter clockwise a bit to see if it helped. when i tightened it back down and cranked on the key, i heard a little pop/clank and then the loud screech sound. i thought maybe i jacked something up turning the distributor like that so i pulled the dizzy out and bumped the motor to tdc to verify i had the timing correct. i did not try cranking it without the distributor in. i havent drained the oil yet but i pulled the valve covers and everything looks good (springs rockers etc) no metal flakes in the oil that was sitting under the valve covers. would the distributor bushing keep the car from firing?
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:17 PM
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s10,

yea i will pull the intake if thats what it comes to. and no on the fram, i paid the extra couple bucks for the purolator filter
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clwhoops44 View Post
t bucket,

it wasnt making the screeching/grinding noise while driving, just a lot of popping and backfiring and ran like a pig. I was told i should advance the dizzy and see if it helped. i tried to loosen up the clamp and turn the dizzy counter clockwise a bit to see if it helped. when i tightened it back down and cranked on the key, i heard a little pop/clank and then the loud screech sound. i thought maybe i jacked something up turning the distributor like that so i pulled the dizzy out and bumped the motor to tdc to verify i had the timing correct. i did not try cranking it without the distributor in. i havent drained the oil yet but i pulled the valve covers and everything looks good (springs rockers etc) no metal flakes in the oil that was sitting under the valve covers. would the distributor bushing keep the car from firing?
From what you said about making a "little pop/clank" when you tightened the distributor back down has me thinking there is something wrong with the oil pump rod matching up with the distributor. Pull the distributor out, crank it over to see if the noise is gone. If not, let us know for more suggestions.
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer View Post
From what you said about making a "little pop/clank" when you tightened the distributor back down has me thinking there is something wrong with the oil pump rod matching up with the distributor. Pull the distributor out, crank it over to see if the noise is gone. If not, let us know for more suggestions.
I agree with this. Doesn't explain the original issue but it would explain noise. That is why I asked if he cranked it without the distributor in to see if the noise was still there.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:55 PM
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If the dist drive rod slot isn't damaged, remember you need to clock it again, the TDC thing with #1 cylinder and the distributor.

When you reinstalled the dist, did the base sit solid on the block, not raised?
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:30 AM
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nova,

I pulled the distributor out and inspected the gear and the drive slot everything looked good. I used a long screwdriver to turn the pump drive shaft back a hair and the distributor dropped in perfect first try. Sat perfectly flush with the block. I haven't had a chance to try any of the suggestions from yesterday.. gotta wait til im off work thursday.
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