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redride 08-10-2010 09:11 PM

Hot start issue
 
OK, I have read other post that talk about hot start problems that sounds like my problem but the fixes mentioned did not fix mine. 69 Nova 502 all of the sudden will not start after I drive it. It starts fine while cold but once I drive it and shut it off it acts like the battery is dead. I put in a new starter, new battery, ran a huge + cable from the trunk where the battery is up to a Ford solenoid that I put under the hood. Today I was told that I needed to run a new large ground cable from the battery which I connected to the bell housing. From the bell housing (5 speed) I grounded it to the frame. Placing the ground here I thought would make a good ground to the motor. I made sure the Ford Solenoid was grounded well and after all this..........still will not turn over once it has been driven.
I did have the car worked on by a shop that builds hot rods because I was having a backfire issue and they found that the intake gaskets recommended by AFR were not the right ones which created a vacuum leak in the upper bolt holes on each side of the intake (AFR heads do not use the 2 upper intake mounting holes on each side of the intake).
While the car car was in the shop I had them fix a trans issue and then do a mini tub so it has been in the shop for about 6 months and now that I have it back I have the hot start issue that I have never had before. Since the shop has to pull the intake to change to a different gasket I am wondering if the timing is just set to high and that is what is causing the problem with the hot start. Any ideas?

brads auto 08-10-2010 09:59 PM

hard starting
 
hi my name is brad iannotti n,providence R.I. EMAIL iannottibrad@yahoo.com my freinds call me mr.wized i do not know how old you are but remmber the old cadlacs. it sounds what your car is doing yo drive it shut it off and go to start it , it sounds like timing is advanced to death. it is if you have vacum control dist. if you have a check valve it is holding dist advance will it sets vacum slowly leaks out. try running it whit out vacum hook to dist for a test let me know BRAD :pimp:

bubbahotep 08-10-2010 10:22 PM

Yeah sounds like timing. I had identical issues not long ago, adjusted my timing and I get a start even when the thing is baking hot.

brads auto 08-10-2010 10:47 PM

Monte
 
HI ITS BRAD i see you have a monte i have 1987 monte carlo mint engine 200 miles trans 1500 350 roller cam,roller lfters,roller rockers 203 duration .450 lift car is all orginal black red.orange stripes 200r4 shift kit all built car is mint not bad. computor works i like it super chip in computor. but lets get back to yours tell me if it works, remmber its probly holding vacum and dist, is advance all the way when its sitting there for some time it loses the vacum and goes back to where it should be [cars are not sell proof for vacum] my car does not have vacum it is computerrized keep the hope up and if that does not work we will fix it do not worry or get nerves thanks BRAD :pimp: :nono:

sqzbox 08-10-2010 11:23 PM

Where is your initial timing set at now?

redride 08-11-2010 08:16 AM

I am not sure where it is set now and it was late last night when I finished running the new ground cable and then found that it did not help. I will back the timing down tonight and see if that is the problem,,,it seems to me that that is the only thing left that it could be.

sqzbox 08-11-2010 08:23 AM

Might need a bigger battery. There's a lot of resistance through the wire all the way from the trunk. Check for a ground strap from the engine to the firewall also. :D

pepi 08-11-2010 08:35 AM

manifold off and on, distributer in and out, hot start problem, now but not before the work preformed = timing to far advanced the shop that did the work should correct that at no charge . Just my first guess.

F-BIRD'88 08-11-2010 03:55 PM

Sitting in a shop for 6 months is enough to cause corroded battery terminal, starter terminal contacts. Remove and Clean all the connections.
Remove the battery and charge it. It may have sulfated from sitting.
Get a heat shield wrap for the starter motor.
Replace the GM solenoid. They don't last forever, especially with headers.
Install a ignition power interrupt switch to allow cranking the motor over with no spark. Get it spinning then hit the spark.

Ignition timing, mechanical advance weights stuck advanced.

redride 08-11-2010 06:38 PM

Am going to run the car then pull the coil wire and see how it turns over. The starter is 3 days old,,,the battery is 3 days old and is big,,,,the cables from the battery,,,,2 days old and are so big that I had to use welding connections, Ford solenoid,,,2 days old. I do not have vac. advance,,,running all MSD with mac. advance only. I could have gotten a bad starter but I want to check the cranking with the coil wire pulled and see how it acts.

bigdog7373 08-12-2010 12:30 PM

Like sqzbox said, check for the ground strap. Also, too advanced timing, check spark plug gap (although it wouldn't cause it to crank slowly, it would cause it to be difficult to start when hot). Starter may need to be shimmed just a little; remember metal expands when it gets hot. Just some thoughts.

redride 08-12-2010 02:23 PM

Just got back from the shop :( Put another new starter on and it would not even turn over with a cold starter. Pulled coil wire and still nothing,,,nothing at all. Tried to turn the motor over at the crank and no go.....they are going to pull the pan because they think it is a galded piston or worse.......I may be done with Hot Rods!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

brads auto 08-13-2010 12:44 AM

brads auto
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sqzbox
Where is your initial timing set at now?

i thing factory timing is 6 i have mine at 12 i have no ping [my dist. works whit computor] 12 is all right now because i am braking in engine , but after that i will try between 12 to 22 just fooling around with it, because at 12 there is no sign of ping at all, engine works perfect [computor,knock sensor,egr system,and coolant temp. all there] thank you keep intough tell me everything about your engine and what the problem is ,

SS66chevelle 08-13-2010 10:17 AM

FWIW I have been having similar hot start issues with the battery in the trunk.

I tried the ford solenoid, the starter heat shield, grounded both the the battery and the engine block to the frame etc.

After trying the above with no success I finally figured out that if you disconnected the HEI wire and just cranked it a few times the starter was almost too hot to touch even with the engine cold.. = ground issue!!

I did a lot of reading here and on team chevelle and saw several posts saying that grounding the battery to the frame was not sufficient b/c the frame is relatively flimsy metal etc. People were citing factory assembly manuals which called for battery to block no exceptions.

What seems to have solved it for me was running a 2ga ground from the battery in the trunk to the engine block itself (not the bellhousing which is usually aluminum and doesnt conduct well). I also used a separate 2ga ground from a different point on the the block to the frame, a third 2ga ground from the body to the frame and an 8ga ground from the ford remote solenoid to the negative on the battery. Make sure all paint surfaces are clean, bare metal at the connection point - use a dremel or 80 grit sand paper to get to clean, shiny metal.

Hope this helps save someone some frustration in the future..

redride 08-13-2010 10:21 AM

What we ended up doing was after driving the car then pulling the starter and putting a cold one on and the motor would not turn over we attempted to turn the motor over by hand. The motor would not turn over when hot = engine problem and nothing to do with electrical or starter. I am going to pull the motor and pull it down and fix it then sell the 600 hp beast and replace it with some type of LS motor and trans.


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