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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:53 PM
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Don't depend on the steel body for a ground path. Assume that it's non-conductive like fiberglass. Then run a copper wire for all grounds. A common ground wire can be used just oversize it. Say a #10 to the rear of the car and another #10 the front. The engine will have the large ground for starting. This is now the method used for newer cars (with computers).

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2012, 07:56 PM
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Do what you like.....Unibody or frame, IMO, doesn't really matter, steel is steel....... link the neg battery post to the fender, motor and the fire wall, in what ever order you like. The front engine cradle/clip/subframe is not a good place to connect your ground... while it won't hurt a thing, it uses bushings with thru bolts to connect it to the chassis, and the engine also uses rubber cushions in the motor mounts..... make sure you have a connection to the engine block etc....

In mine I ran the Neg cable from the battery to the engine block, 8 gauge wire from the neg post to the fender, two grounding straps (braided cable) from the engine block to the fire wall..... works very well..... It too is a unibody....67 Camaro
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:55 AM
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Good Electrical Bonding

We use to get a lot of these problems on crop spraying aircraft what with the corrosive chemicals and the like. We got round it in two ways.
First, as they say here, make a good clean, bright, area for the connection. Clean with emery paper and Scotchbrite.
Secondly we used “Battery Grease” (Shell PX7 mineral grease – Vaseline is much the same) on all the connections, which was then cleaned off the outside after the connection was made and the area painted with “Electrical bonding lacquer” (A green waxy transparent coating you will find on most aircraft earth points. But I can't find a civil version!)

I like the idea of the copper plate – that of course won’t work on aluminium but sounds great for steel.
Ignore the star washers – they just collect moisture and cause corrosion, though it’s OK to use a spring washer under the bolt head.

On aircraft the resistance from any point to another should be less than 0.5 ohm, which isn’t a bad idea on cars too.

Here is a good aircraft document on Bonding: :http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...21c99s2c13.pdf
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:58 AM
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I don't use the body or frame for ground. Run ground wires to all loads, have a ground bus bar where they all terminate, and from the bus bar to the battery. For the starter, use big cables from battery to starter. The negative cable goes to a starter bolt. This also grounds the motor, which may be needed for some sensors that use the block as a ground. But I also run a ground wire to these sensors if possible. And it is crucial sometimes. Example: I have a fan thermostat switch that screws into the block, but it has only one wire, no ground wire. I used Teflon tape on the threads, which kept the thermostat from making contact with the block, so no ground and the fans didn't run! I ran a ground wire to the thermostat and that fixed it.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:19 AM
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Getting a good ground

Here is the site for that bonding brush, a very useful tool...
http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,4914.html
I also like to cover the bare metal (bolt/nut/wire connection or ?? ) with Dumb, dumb, a putty like material that comes in a roll, great for sealing all sorts of things, like fender bolts, before undercoating, so you can use a screw driver and just flip off that dumb dumb and wolla a nice CLEAN bolt or ground connection... Works great and easy to use. Just wad up a small ball and press it over the connection (looks like a dollar pancake when finished) that you want sealed, spray your sealer or undercoat over that, black or? and all done...
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:34 AM
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I built an '89 Mustang and Fox bodies are notorious for bad grounds. I solved the problem by taking all wires that grounded to sheetmetal and re-routing them to a dedicated busbar. Then, while I had the motor out, I welded studs to 3/8" plate and welded that to my inner frame rails. The batt neg cable grounds to the plate as does the busbar, 2 engine grounds and a couple of other things. The connections are slathered in dielectric grease. No more ground problems!










[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/evintho/Misc%20photos/Groundisolaterp****ide.jpg[/IMG]




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Old 02-22-2012, 01:06 PM
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Outstanding, Eventho. Here's my battery box with ground bus:
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:26 PM
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Grounding

Remember! Battery is in the car for two primary reasons;
One is to ROTATE the ENGINE!
Two is to FIRE the SPARK PLUGS!

It's for this reason that the engine block (cylinder heads & Starter) MUST be the primary ground.

And remember that electricity in general, Sucks! It is not shot out of the positive wire (spark plug, etc.); it is sucked to the device by the return path.

Just food for thought!!

Bill
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File Type: doc WIRING the Cor way# 1.doc (23.0 KB, 107 views)
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:49 PM
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Shogun, great word docs, all rodders should read. And fine ground bus.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:44 PM
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A common method in aircraft maintenance is to wet assemble the ground connections with a good paint. Dab some paint in the hole before inserting the screw. Also, dab more paint on each individual part, especially the contact surfaces, before assembling the rest of the parts. Then before final torquing, dab some more over the entire assembly. This allows the paint to fill every nook and cranny.

When torqued, the wet paint will be squeezed away from all the direct contact points but will leave a moisture-proof coating on everything else. After the screw is torqued, touch up any bare spots of paint that were removed by the tool. You can keep adding coats until you are satisfied with the paint's thickness.

If done properly, there will be no air pockets anywhere in the assembly. or any pathways for moisture to seep in.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:14 PM
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how to acheive the best ground?

I think I remember reading somewhwer that you could have too many grounds!! does this sound possible or am I confused.It seems there was quite a detailed discussion if I recall.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:15 PM
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Should worry about that level of detail in aircraft, after all at 10,00 feet ...not many second chances.

That said we are talking about automobiles and tail lights, radios and starting systems, everyone has their own way of doing it but overkill in some suggestions.

I suppose if you had enough money you could have the entire frame zinc plated with gold plated internal copper buss bars running the entire length of the frame....... but that might be over kill as well. Read with a sense of humor......
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD Guy
I suppose if you had enough money you could have the entire frame zinc plated with gold plated internal copper buss bars running the entire length of the frame....... but that might be over kill as well. Read with a sense of humor......
Funny story, I did my first rod exactly that way, it was a great roller, but didn't have any money left for a drivetrain...
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:54 AM
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Now don't get me wrong .... some of the pics posted are very sharp with details in the grounding bus etc....... visually, outstanding work..... functionable... Hole with a bolt, just as good......IMO
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD Guy
Should worry about that level of detail in aircraft, after all at 10,00 feet ...not many second chances.

That said we are talking about automobiles and tail lights, radios and starting systems, everyone has their own way of doing it but overkill in some suggestions.

I suppose if you had enough money you could have the entire frame zinc plated with gold plated internal copper buss bars running the entire length of the frame....... but that might be over kill as well. Read with a sense of humor......

Total overkill, and good chance problems will be induced, keep it simple stupid.
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