How to bend my steering arm? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2005, 01:25 PM
rwruther's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: new wires for the hot rod 39
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 154
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How to bend my steering arm?

I hope I included a picture of my problem..... (not much experience posting)....

I have a 1939 Pontiac. I put FATMAN dropped steering knuckle supports in. So BUMP STEER problem. So solution is to bend my steering arms down as in the included picture. Question: If I heat and bend my steering arms, will that cause them to screw up totally when I hit some bump two years from now and kill me so the wife gets all the insurance money?

Observation: The inboard pivot point for the lower control arm is not aligned with the inboard pivot point of the tie rod. I assume stock set up did not BUMP STEER however. Question: How can that be?

Also: Why would it be lame to extend the ball joint pin upward, fabricate some sort of extension?

Thanks for your time, and cudos to all you old geezers out there!

Fellow geezer,

rwruther
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	39 Pontiac front end 8-5-05 004BB.JPG
Views:	214
Size:	63.2 KB
ID:	6400  

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2005, 03:19 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,388
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I do it all the time. Here is a photo how-to of the procedure on my '53 Chevy pickup. Heat it red hot, bend it then let it cool SLOWLY - no quenching allowed. No safety problem as long as you let it cool slowly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2005, 06:04 PM
Henry Highrise's Avatar
Lost in the 60's
 
Last wiki edit: Removing stuck fasteners Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dixieland
Age: 69
Posts: 15,189
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Willys is right! Don't quench them . Let them air cool on thier own. If ya don't they will be very brittle and could break.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2005, 07:17 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: JB's 37 Pickup
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Smoky Mountains
Age: 76
Posts: 2,358
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
By your pic/marks, you are going to shorten the pitman arm considerably, which will effect the geometry. Willys, do you have any thoughts on this or is it not going to be siginificant enough to worry about?

Just about the oldest Geezer

Trees
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2005, 07:27 PM
rwruther's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: new wires for the hot rod 39
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 154
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
To Trees and Willys36 the photos and explanation give me hope I can do this all by my self alone, just me! However, do you guys think I'm going to have to rent a set of torches or can I use some MAP(?) gas, (like for copper plumbing)???! I'm thinking the little map gas thing is going to not work.

Thanks and a tip o the hat to ye!

rwruther
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2005, 08:18 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,388
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Trees has a point. As you see on my '53 steering arm I basically went from below center to above center so the geometry didn't change. You are putting in a pretty big drop which will shorten the steering arm somewhat. Will make for quicker steering. When they do the Mor-Drop torched front axles they not only bend the axle end, they also stretch it so the dropped axle ends are the same distance apart as the stock ones. You might play with making up some cardboard models of the front end and see what happens to the steering when the arms are modified.

A plumber's MAP gas torch isn't near enough heat. You need an oxy/acetylene torch with big rosebud tip so you can get past cherry red to pink for easy bending.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2005, 09:02 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,388
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I did a little playing with the problem and here is what I came up with. If you try to get that much drop with a heated bend you give up way too much steering arm length. Unless you can significantly stretch the arm as well as bend it isn't a good option.

However, if you make a 3/8" thick bracket (orange in picture), you can reposition the bracket (green in picture) and give up very little radius. Use counter sunk grade-8, 3/8" bolts to attach the arm at the new hole in the bracket.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2005, 08:09 AM
Member
 

Last journal entry: JB's 37 Pickup
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Smoky Mountains
Age: 76
Posts: 2,358
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Wish I had !0% of Willys' skills!! After looking at all the pics and thinking about this suspension, I am wondering how this is ever going to work. To me, it looks as though the spindle hub is going to be near 3 inches above the top of the frame rail at ride height!!! (based one the lower control arm appearing to be nearly level and assuming the spindle is at least 1" diameter). Even if you do get the pitman arm low enough to clear the frame, you may interfere with the wheel as well as the tie rod will be bumping the frame if you have normal suspension travel. Additionally, you are going to have some serious ground clearance issues, I think.

Also, I noticed there is not a lower ball joint and that has me wondering if there is a ball joint on top or is it similar to the lower fitting. If so, is it possible that rhe spindle is mounted up side down. Maybe I'm just a crazy old geezer, but things just don't look right. How about a bigger picture to cover the whole thing as well as a front and top view,

Trees

Last edited by trees; 08-14-2005 at 08:16 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2005, 08:32 AM
Henry Highrise's Avatar
Lost in the 60's
 
Last wiki edit: Removing stuck fasteners Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dixieland
Age: 69
Posts: 15,189
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Whatever that lower joint is...It does not look quite right to me, looks sloppy. Maybe its the slop in this joint itself that is causing the bump steer problem. Some better pictures would help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2005, 10:24 AM
rwruther's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: new wires for the hot rod 39
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 154
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi again you guys....First: Thank you for your help in this matter, very nice of you to take the time and so much effort to explain this stuff. Second: I am sorry that I don't know how to cut stuff and paste stuff so it turns out to look good on this board.... I'm going to give it a shot, but it may be kind of goofed up by the time I get done.

Here is another picture of the 39 Pontiac front end with FATMANs dropped steering knuckle support. The steering arm is real hard to see from this shot, its the thing behind the nuts which are above the spring in the picture. Above that is a thrust bearing, the knuckle with the king pin inside.

Trees: There aren't ball joints at the upper and lower control arms. These pivots only have one degree of freedom as they say. The lower pin is a big screw, its hollow. The steering knuckle support has a big tube-like deal, threads inside, threads outside. You thread this deal inside the steering knuckle support and tighten it down snug, real snug. Then you screw the screw into it, put on the nut and lock washer.... (the A arms have threads.) Point is, the tube like deal rides on threads and grease.

Its the same for the upper pin, except there is an eccentrics too... here, I'll try to find a picture and poke it in, just a second....

Ok, see the nut on the left gets tight to the A-Arm. The pin, the middle part, that threads to the steering knuckle support and provides camber adjustment. The zert on the right comes out, allen wrench goes in, turn the pin, see? The steering knuckle support has a jam-bolt so it holds onto the pin tight. The left nut threads to the upper arm, tight! The right nut allows pin adjustment via allen, and there is bolt to hug it tight so it don't pop out on ye! Note that greasing the nuts puts new grease on the threads of the pin. The manual says this prevents wear and is good-good.... alls I know is, them pins are HARD. That thing is 65 years old and looks flawless. Ok?

Note also, the other pic, the A-arms are all the way up, no spring in there! Cool a?

OK.... the bracket fix will not work so hot for me I think. There is a break backing plate that mounts to the steering arm. So, mounting the steering arm to the bracket and bolting the bracket to the knuckle... there aint no room I think. Is there? I don't think so anyhow...

The circle drawing thing is so neat, I'm going to take my camera out there and take some shots with a ruler... maybe I can make my own steering arm or something using my CAD tools (windows "paint") ha ha ha, I kill me!

Thanks again dudes! I'm getting lots of pointers and I feel much better now... not so hopelessly lost!

rwruther
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	39 Pontiac front end 8-5-05 002B.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	70.3 KB
ID:	6427   Click image for larger version

Name:	39 Pontiac front end 8-4-05 007B.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	32.3 KB
ID:	6428  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2005, 11:44 AM
Henry Highrise's Avatar
Lost in the 60's
 
Last wiki edit: Removing stuck fasteners Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dixieland
Age: 69
Posts: 15,189
Wiki Edits: 4

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Have you checked with FatMan to see if they ofer a dropped steering arm for use with this spindle application?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2005, 01:21 PM
xntrik's Avatar
Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
bending steering arm....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Highrise
Willys is right! Don't quench them . Let them air cool on thier own. If ya don't they will be very brittle and could break.
If you bend it you shorten the effective length..... CALL FAT MAN trust them
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2005, 04:50 PM
rwruther's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: new wires for the hot rod 39
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 154
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Highrise
Have you checked with FatMan to see if they offer a dropped steering arm for use with this spindle application?
Yes, I asked them before I bought the dropped steering knuckles... the guy said nope. I also asked them about parts they might make that would help me add shocks to the front end, (mine are part of the upper A arm and they're shot). The guy said nope to that also. He was not that yummy-fuzzy. Here is what FATMAN says about the steering arm:

"Remember also that when you lower a car by raising the spindle, the steering arm and outer tie rod go up too, creating a geometry change and bumpsteer...." "Compare your stock upright's kingpin position to your new one to determine the exact amount of drop you need. Use a torch to heat the arm cherry red immediately past it's mounting holes and bend down as required. Repeat to level out the tie rod mount. It's important to let the arm cool as slow as possible. A sheet of aluminum foil folded over the part is a big help in retaining the heat and slowing the cooling."

FATMAN includes a little drawing too.

Here is a picture of the old and the new.... FATMAN's on the right

rwruther
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	39 Pontiac front end 8-5-05 009B.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	97.7 KB
ID:	6431  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2005, 09:58 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,388
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Make room for the extra 3/8" thick bracket by grinding off the bosses on the inside of the steering arm. That won't hurt strength at all. Those bosses are there to simply space the arm out from the spindle so do the spacing with the bracket.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2013, 01:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
steering arm

Hi, I know this is an old post but I'm looking at the same situation with a 48 pontiac. so what did you end up doing ?


thanks Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem: Steering Rack? horvath Suspension - Brakes - Steering 64 06-15-2005 08:11 PM
Disk brake caliper & steering arm hitting gator412 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 05-28-2005 10:31 PM
suggestions on steering arm construction moparx Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 03-09-2005 07:38 PM
Replace arm strong steering to power in your 51 to 54 Chevy car Michael Bryan Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 05-08-2004 09:50 AM
Hotrodders Knowledge Cluster: Power Steering Conversions Jon Suspension - Brakes - Steering 0 09-03-2003 11:20 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.