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How do I get 500 Hp out of a 454 with peanut port heads?

53K views 62 replies 22 participants last post by  thinwhiteduke 
#1 ·
Hi, I recently bought a stock motor home 454/ th400 combo for my 1970 c-10. I would like to get about 500 hp. Can someone help guide me in the right direction?
 
#9 ·
What is with the number 500, is that 5 more than your buddy. Looking for ideas of what vehicle you would like your truck to accelerate like can be more help at times. An impression made by a C5 vette, 5L mustang 5 spd, LS1, 440 mopar, 389 poncho, will get you building the novelest rwd's .

My pickup has a 85 305 qjet with Vortec 906 head swap. It out powers the stock 2wd 454 big ten powerhouse truck from that year. Same 3.73 gears and chassis. My 305 creams the stock 454s.

Big ten stock got 8.0 0-60 and 16.4 in the quarter mile run. 10city/14high mpg.

My 305 truck gets about 15.5+ in the run as it burries the 85mph speedometer. 15city/16 mpg at 65mph cruise control on. About the same acceleration as a stock 99 grand prix supercharged .
 
#13 ·
cobalt327 said:
The assumption is brake HP unless RWHP is specified, at least to me. YMMV.

With me its always rear wheel horse power that pops into my head (probably because I ran rear wheel Dino's And did high speed tune ups on r.w.dino's)! Its hard to lean over a hood at 80 miles an hr on a drag car :D LOL

Its funny, people buy Big cu inch monster crate engines thinking their 500 horse power is guaranteed because of the adds and litrature says they were dino tested ! Then they bring em in and find out they have 275 hp at the rear wheels!! A lot really get upset and yell at me :D After doing quite a few crate motors that were installed in vehicles they average a little over 1/3 less hp at the rear wheels compared to their advertized brake hp!

But then you get the young guy that built a strong mouse motor himself did it right and its pullen 275 hp at 6500 rpm and climben the look on his face makes my day.

people dont understand you can put that same 275 hp mouse into another car and only get a reading of 210 hp at the same rpm or change to a lighter rear end dope and gain 3 hp! The big one I see most are the people putting in high volume higher pressure oil pumps and their oil pressures reading 90# at idle hot! they just dont understand how much hp and torque it takes to power that pump. Just changing fans can give your eng 5, 10, or more usable hp :D

I didnt have to write all that! :D I already know cobalt knows this and a lot more! but some visitors may not :D
 
#14 ·
painted jester said:
With me its always rear wheel horse power that pops into my head (probably because I ran rear wheel Dino's And did high speed tune ups on r.w.dino's)! Its hard to lean over a hood at 80 miles an hr on a drag car :D LOL

Its funny, people buy Big cu inch monster crate engines thinking their 500 horse power is guaranteed because of the adds and litrature says they were dino tested ! Then they bring em in and find out they have 275 hp at the rear wheels!! A lot really get upset and yell at me :D After doing quite a few crate motors that were installed in vehicles they average a little over 1/3 less hp at the rear wheels compared to their advertized brake hp!

But then you get the young guy that built a strong mouse motor himself did it right and its pullen 275 hp at 6500 rpm and climben the look on his face makes my day.

people dont understand you can put that same 275 hp mouse into another car and only get a reading of 210 hp at the same rpm or change to a lighter rear end dope and gain 3 hp! The big one I see most are the people putting in high volume higher pressure oil pumps and their oil pressures reading 90# at idle hot! they just dont understand how much hp and torque it takes to power that pump. Just changing fans can give your eng 5, 10, or more usable hp :D

I didnt have to write all that! :D I already know cobalt knows this and a lot more! but some visitors may not :D
Given the same H.P. weather.Flywheel,Gross or rear wheel B.M.E.P. decreases with increasing displacement.And B.M.E.P.plays a great role in the durability of any engine weather S.I. or C.I.
I know this statement is arguable with how you get to the same H.P. but it is generally true!
Decreasing internal component friction by the use of lighter oils always gives a small increase in H.P.
Removing ancilliary loads also gives increases in H.P.
Dyno adjustments,ambient temp,exhaust header internal condition(rust or carbon build up)can also affect the readings
I know Im splitting hairs here.Ive never seen two different dynos give the same readings.
Im not bashing dyno tuning,I think its a great thing!
Ive personally seen a S.B. load up to 800 G.H.P. at 9200,n that was at 209 C.I.D.with a little less than 2 ATM of boost!
 
#15 · (Edited)
topwrench said:
Given the same H.P. weather.Flywheel,Gross or rear wheel B.M.E.P. decreases with increasing displacement.And B.M.E.P.plays a great role in the durability of any engine weather S.I. or C.I.
I know this statement is arguable with how you get to the same H.P. but it is generally true!
Decreasing internal component friction by the use of lighter oils always gives a small increase in H.P.
Removing ancilliary loads also gives increases in H.P.
Dyno adjustments,ambient temp,exhaust header internal condition(rust or carbon build up)can also affect the readings
I know Im splitting hairs here.Ive never seen two different dynos give the same readings.
Im not bashing dyno tuning,I think its a great thing!
Ive personally seen a S.B. load up to 800 G.H.P. at 9200,n that was at 209 C.I.D.with a little less than 2 ATM of boost!

I agree I can dyno in the evening get a reading shut down leave the car on the dyno over night, come in the next day and get different readings, Air temp, humidity too many variables! But I wasn't comparing anything big block or small block. The mouse motor could of been a 427 side oiler didnt make any difference I was talking about peoples reactions! Maybe if I used two 454s And not the same hp In the statement it would have gone over better

Their R.W.Dynoing at car shows here (probably at lawn shows all over I dont Know) they charge 50 bucks and have the owners guess what their hp is. They give the same reactions!! Usually they blame the builder who promised 6oo hp out of the build! They dont realize the builder did just what he said he'd do 600 or more b.h.p. not 395 r.w.h.p.!
 
#16 ·
You are right Jester,I think Dyno tuning is a great tool for getting the most H.P. out of an engine.
Sure beats running up n down the road to adjust stuff.
The number at the rear wheels is like you say always lower than the FWheel number.
Wow I dont no how many Flywheel H.P. would be needed to put 600 to the ground probably well over a 1000.
Some of you guys r lucky to live in a place where there is dynos available,
I moved here from Miami n its culture shock for Hotrodding
 
#17 · (Edited)
topwrench said:
You are right Jester,I think Dyno tuning is a great tool for getting the most H.P. out of an engine.
Sure beats running up n down the road to adjust stuff.
The number at the rear wheels is like you say always lower than the FWheel number.
Wow I dont no how many Flywheel H.P. would be needed to put 600 to the ground probably well over a 1000.
Some of you guys r lucky to live in a place where there is dynos available,
I moved here from Miami n its culture shock for Hotrodding

Check the collages close to you if they have automotive classes they may have a dyno (They do at some collages around here) you can schedule your car for a class and they will dyno it free (collages dont charge labor) and if you check with the instructors you can sometimes bring your own parts for a dyno tune. Collages also do repair work on public cars no charge but they can not buy you parts or supply them !! :mwink:

The hot roders around here that know about it go to a school about 40 miles away and are very happy when they leave :D

To get 600 hp to the ground depends on the paresitic load on the eng. Water pump, trans., drive shaft, universals, fluids,
ring & pinion, torque converter, disc brake or drum drag, axle bearing drag, fan, aircond., alternator,power steering, the weight of the rims, and much more, any thing that puts any kind of load on that eng. is reducing total horse power and torque away from whats needed to propel that car !! The other factors are many like oxygen in the air, fuel, barometric press., plug wire resistance per foot, spark plug resistance, humidity, temperature of cooling system ( too cold lose hp too hot lose hp) and on and on!!! Even the bends in exhaust systems reduces hp & tq

Any thing you can do to get rid of these parasites :D will free up horse power !! I did A 440 road runner a couple of months ago ( an 11's in the 1/4 car) he had Blue max 800 ohm wires New out of the box(The brand doesnt mater really) And New autolite resister plugs! After the dyno run We changed to accel copper core plug wires and autolite copper core plugs same heat range And picked up 10 hp at the same rpm and load, changed back and lost 10 hp put accel & autlites back on gained 11! Did this 4 times and still showed the same average gain of about 9 hp! Then he was worried about radio noise but his radio played fine, He says he can really feel the difference on acceleration, the only complaints are from his neighbors ,because their home tvs and radios act up when he runs his car (the radio in his car plays fine)!! :D Now thats cheep hp!! Now think over this, people bore their 350 eng .030 over + buy pistons and rings and gain 5 cu in. and pay big money! If they get 1 hp per cu. in. ( 1 hp per c.i. is very good) and they spent over 300 bucks For 5 hp. Compare that to 10 hp for about 70 bucks!! :D

Now Ill try to head off arguments I dont favor 440s, I dont favor accel products or autolite, ( I actually like champion and mallory) Im not telling any one to do this, Im not saying not to bore a block ( boring is actually needed to repair cylinders Or needed for some planed builds ) Im not saying everyone will get 10 hp (a 6 cylinder grandmothers cutlass isnt going to get these gains), Im not saying a complete eng bore ,pistons,rings & bearings cost 300 bucks.And I dont dislike a 6 cyl. cutlass' My wifes a grandmother and I bought her one! I dont need to hear about it effecting electronics or fuel injection Ive done this to both injected and electronics, and Im not saying it wont effect all injected or electronics on all cars every where!

Ive got a chart I made on other tests Ive done on different brands and Ohm ratings on fords , Chryslers, chevys ,Etc I have ohm ratings and hp gains wrote down. If I can find it Ill post it! The brand names didnt really make a differents They all performed pretty much the same if they had the same ohm rating, The less ohms per foot and the shorter the wires the more hp was gained.
I retired 4 weeks ago and closed my shop, I put all my equipment in my 3 car garage!!! Its so full all our cars are parked out side under the car ports and some of my equipment is in my back den :D The only paper work I separated is what I need for taxes :mwink: So it may take me a while to find some of my test charts their packed with All my other papers in boxes they date back 30 years. But there must be something on line about resistance and hp thats not biased ( like a co. testing its own products)

Jester :thumbup:
 
#18 ·
I built a similar engine for my nova

I used the article cobalt posted for my Nova

However I ended up running 8 to1 compression In order to run 87 octane. I get 21 m pg with an overdrive transmission. Naturally aspirated I run 13 flat in the quarter mile. With a 75 horsepower shot I run consistent 12.3 in a quarter mile.
 
#20 ·
painted jester said:
Nice work :D 12.3 is a very respectable time :thumbup:
Im very happy with the results. It was a blast on the Hot Rod Power Tour. It didn't cost me a fortune in fuel and I was able to cruise 70mph. I also enjoy participating in the real street class(7.50 and slower index w/ street tires) at the local track during the street racing events. I run a consistent 7.58 in the 1/8 mile if I get it to hook :D
 
#21 ·
ethn_bert said:
I used the article cobalt posted for my Nova

However I ended up running 8 to1 compression In order to run 87 octane. I get 21 m pg with an overdrive transmission. Naturally aspirated I run 13 flat in the quarter mile. With a 75 horsepower shot I run consistent 12.3 in a quarter mile.
I also, have based my engine build on that series of articles (it helped me choose a cam)
but I was a little farther into the head and cam upgrades that they did in later articles, with the same motor.

so do you have the peanut-ports?
and did you use the XE268H cam?

the reason I ask, is I am curious about the lower CR
 
#22 ·
matts37chev said:
I also, have based my engine build on that series of articles (it helped me choose a cam)
but I was a little farther into the head and cam upgrades that they did in later articles, with the same motor.

so do you have the peanut-ports?
and did you use the XE268H cam?

the reason I ask, is I am curious about the lower CR
Yes, If you read my thread it states that I used the peanut port heads with a Comp Cams xs256s camshaft. I ported and polished the heads with bulk of my concentration on the exhaust side. I used stock valve size, upgraded springs, and the matching comp cams stamped steel roller tipped rockers with 1 piece push rods.
 
#23 ·
ethn_bert said:
Yes, If you read my thread it states that I used the peanut port heads with a Comp Cams xs256s camshaft. I ported and polished the heads with bulk of my concentration on the exhaust side. I used stock valve size, upgraded springs, and the matching comp cams stamped steel roller tipped rockers with 1 piece push rods.
sorry, but what thread?
do you have engine build thread?
or photo journal?
 
#24 ·
ethn_bert said:
Yes, If you read my thread it states that I used the peanut port heads with a Comp Cams xs256s camshaft. I ported and polished the heads with bulk of my concentration on the exhaust side. I used stock valve size, upgraded springs, and the matching comp cams stamped steel roller tipped rockers with 1 piece push rods.
are the XS the same as the XE but soild lifter?

that cam is 2 sizes smaller than the article used
so i am sure that helped with your choice to use lower CR
 
#26 ·
ethn_bert said:
Post 19 has a hyperlink for my Nova

Yes the camshaft is a solid. Im old school a bit ;)
very good, missed that i guess :thumbup:

I asked about the cam vs. CR because I am trying to see what I can get away with for my build, for the CR

but you are way lower on the cam then I am, I have the XE 274 H
thats is why I asked if you had the XE 268 it would have been close
its no wonder your CR works well, with the cam you have :thumbup:
 
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