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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2009, 05:03 PM
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LOL I just remembered this from that companies website. They sure seem big on removing dings and dents. Audio link

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2009, 07:25 PM
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I didnt read this whole post so sorry if this has been said but when working with black it is very very difficult to get it perfect. Any little imperfection is going to show. When you took it to the second shop they probably saw that the bodywork was socalled "done" and just sanded it down and shot the paint on it then sent it home. The sanding could have caused a problem too especially if they had a newbie doing it. Like I said when working with black... youve got your work cut out for you. The only good news is that black is black. There arent different shades of it like there are every other color, including white.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2009, 10:37 PM
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Professional Response

I checked out he you tube video and and read the whole post. I think Brian is right that people do strange things. The simple answer to your situation is...Make the first shop do it correctly!! They have the equipment, they are capable of high end work. You stated several times the cost was not the object. You seem to know right from wrong on the repair process. To get it done right the first time you need each party to be accountable. You admitted that you assumed they knew what needed done, they did not do what was agreed, then you negotiate a lower price or refuse the work.

I was a tech for 15 years and have been an insurance claims rep for 8. Still do the repairs as a sideline, You took it to the second shop said "smooth up" the bodywork and paint it. They did. I hate the term "Just want a nice job". What is Nice, be specific!! You certainly are more fussy with this than some would be, and if you would have been specific and cost truely was not a concern, I don't feel there would have been a miscommunication. I have lost many jobs by saying up front: "Be willing to pay for what you expect or you can expect what you pay for." This will usually evoke a conversation where they will come to build trust or distrust. Money is powerful. And people will try to screw you, I won't try to deny that. But if you are clear that Quality comes before Cost, you will get better results.

Autobody is skill that is under appreciated, in my opinion, you have the advantage.. You know and care about cars. Don't do the cat and mouse dance of "smooth it up and paint it" That phrase on a black car says: Cost is priority. State that you know black shows every flaw. (if you didn't before you do now). If the shop you are dealing with doesn't elaborate on the steps needed to acheive this, you can bet they won't do them either.

In closing, I would urge you not to switch shops mid process EVER! Make the first shop make it right!!! If shop one hosed it up, and they did, according to you. Is it shop two's job to correct it?? HE!! NO! In shop owner twos defense, if you accept shoddy work from one it must be what you were looking for. If the dissatisfaction was explained to hin he would have not addmitted to not fully knowing what you expected. When I see jobs moved from one shop to another I always wonder.... If they did not care enough to finish it. how much care was there getting it this far. Some shops have compeency issus, but if they know going in what is expected they will either over price, be to busy, or accomadate you. The prices you quoted seemed low to mid level to me. It seems like you got what you paid for. And I believe that either shop could and would do the job to your expectation if they were clear on that.

You said you would be willing to repair yourself next time, I say don't wait til next time! Saddle up and ride. It will be real easy to dissassemble, block, fill missed dings, reprime, repaint, scuff, buff, re-assemble. and best of all it will be to your liking.......... or at least to the best of your abilities.
God speed!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2009, 11:03 PM
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If anyone was wondering, my last paint project from about 5 years ago was this truck.
It was a real pain. Turned out ok. I didn't take real detailed pics of it.
But I realized, I'm not engaging in anymore paint projects unless they're small panels.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque454
I The only good news is that black is black. There arent different shades of it like there are every other color, including white.
First of all, that sounds good, but is untrue. There are many variations of black, just like other colors.

On the original complaint, I have to agree with Brian BIG TIME on this one. I think it was a lot of miscommunication on this one. If the finishing shop knew that it was expected to put out a "perfect product" and that money didn't matter, then the customer probably could have been satisfied when the job was done.

On the other hand.... REALLY why didn't the first shop do the whole job? The shops I have worked in have usually taken the jobs in to do it all. If the customer felt like they were screwed, it was after the job was completed. I know that is was said that they screwed you by not pulling the frame, even though they were paid for it. There is no indication that the measurements are out of spec. If you went to a doctor and told him to cure you of a disease, that he found you didn't have, would you think that you don't have to pay for the office visit or tests? I have many times measured a vehicle that I felt was damaged, just to find that it was within specs.

Aaron
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adtkart
On the other hand.... REALLY why didn't the first shop do the whole job? The shops I have worked in have usually taken the jobs in to do it all. If the customer felt like they were screwed, it was after the job was completed. I know that is was said that they screwed you by not pulling the frame, even though they were paid for it. There is no indication that the measurements are out of spec. I have many times measured a vehicle that I felt was damaged, just to find that it was within specs.
Aaron
Ok, I can provide specific answers. Coming back up here, the answers may be hidden in this mess somewhere.

I already said that I bought the car as a roller, I've had to hunt junkyards for parts. I've seen several of these cars with similiar rear end damage and they ALL had that same EXACT wrinkle on the 1/4 panel, the little section between the rear wheel and door jam. Also I don't think I mentioned how it seemed like the drivers door gap opened up while the pass gap closed.

I asked about all that, they said it's very common and most of that wrinkle will pull out. At this point I'll say this was the first and only shop I took it to, I wanted to do the body and paint work myself but it's obvious I don't have a frame machine so I told them I wanted it repaired back straight and strong.
They said no problem we'll leave it in primer for you to finish.

Ok I drove it there with the whole rear end panels removed so they could see the damage for a more accurate estimate. They called me and said they wanted me to bring the rest of the parts so they could get it all aligned. The guy doing the work wanted to show me the car and what he was going to do. He did mention that the subframe connectors on the car were in the way of something he usually ties onto I don't remember exactly.
But it seemed like a show to me, Like "see it's on the frame rack" he said he needs to find a place to connect to because he's going to hold it down and push the rear up. Yet it was obvious he was stalling, he wasn't doing anything so I left.

This brings up another very good point I just thought of. They had the car over the weekend. I decided to get on the internet and look at auto body frame repair, etc. My searches lead to a lot of frame machine manufacturers and descriptions of how their machines work. I know FOR A FACT when I was there and the guy was pulling it that he did not have the lazer B S on the machine, I looked. I already said about when I picked it up the owner was bragging about the machine, I asked 'this uses lazers right?' he said yes and when I asked where they were he pointed to a dusty black bag on top of a pile of junk, what a way to store such intricate instruments capable, as he said, to get my car straight to 2mm accuracy.
Further proof they did not pull it sideways IMO. Like I said already they did pull the corner pinchwelds lightly to aid in hammering it.

It's odd that the area that was wrinkled is what was covered in thick primer, I sanded this a little and ran into filler as well. And yes I do know that the frame machine is not going to pull the wrinkle out 100%. I know it's going to need more work even if it was pulled straight. Again I don't think it was pulled at all and that they just hammered and filled that area too. JMHO

Theres nothing stopping me from taking the car home ready to be blocked out and painted, and then changing my mind and bringing it right back to them and having them complete it. OTHER THAN the fact that I got a chance to see what they actually did to the car vs what they told me they did.

I posted pics of one truck I did a lot of body work on and painted black, I painted a lot of small single panels black and my body shop skills are hit or miss. Some things I've done came out perfect, some didn't. I dug out all my paint stuff and thought a lot, I got paint prices, I don't use cheap c r ap I like PPG Deltron 2000. I got paint prices, etc. I have nothing now but an old gun, etc, etc, etc.

I went to shop #2 got a price and thought, well I can spend about the same amount of money to buy it and do it myself and screw it up, or I can pay a little more to have a shop do it once and be done. Boy was I wrong. If I missed I bet I could have done about the same as it is now.
I still don't regret it because I'm not in the mood to do body work these days. If they had just did it to their best abilities I would be 100% happy with it.

If I didn't say it already I didn't go shop hopping. I stopped at shop #1 talked, and literally had them drive me home.

Shop #2 I stopped at, talked, and dropped it off the next day.
These shops have a good reputation, I don't know how else to choose a shop.

Last edited by Jason; 03-09-2009 at 10:51 PM.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2009, 11:37 PM
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I would return to the first shop and tell them to repair it right.

The frame damage is a major safety issue.

You can contact the BBB or your local Chamber, but if it were me and I was as angry as you seem to be; I would consider talking to an attorney about it.

Reckless Endangerment
Fraud
etc...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2009, 05:53 AM
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Whats a problem is when shops are afraid to charge what they really should.. They sell from fear of losing a customer and that attitude hurts the final outcome to plus they have to woyk with a resentment the whole time..

I know of an body/paint outfit that is like a fine restaurant..Price isn't discussed untill after the project is done to everyones satisfaction...

Can you try to make a reservation to drop it off back at the first shop if they can schedule you in.., have them do the enhancements and send you a bill when it's done?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2009, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ret_marine2003
The frame damage is a major safety issue.


etc...
it doesn't have a frame
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2009, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by milo
it doesn't have a frame
I was waiting for that one.
I know, but if I said they straightened the frame we all get the point right?
Not sure about the 1st shop, taking it back. If they guy was slick enough to squeeze an extra 250 out of me then I can't even imagine how bad I'd get ripped if I said fix it at any cost. I believe the guy ripped me off. Not that I paid too much he ripped me off.

And maybe I wasn't in a business suit or whatever when I pulled up, maybe it's because I had the car apart and they seen me as driving a s. pile I don't know but the shop owner said he could do it for $xxxx.xx, we can save more money if you pay with cash, etc.

So as I'm filling out the paperwork he said you know thats going to get destroyed when the job is done right.
ok....I guess.

Well I didn't realize at the time that this makes it impossible to do anything, I can't contact the BBB, I have no proof my car was ever there. Same with any kind of warranty. The guy took advantage of my ignorance and screwed me.

I plead guilty, I did wrong, I'll step down from the stand and take my sentence of looking at this crap work for the duration of my owning the car.
This thread is turning into an online court room. I never in my life thought that a trip to the body shop would lead to me being f d in so many ways and thought of badly by people on the internet.
I could also say to the smart as. s earlier in the thread that I got rear ended by some truck that hit and ran instead of taking the honest route and admitting to me being at fault in a single car accident.

I guess it obvious I'm getting tired of talking about this. I do appreciate the time anyone spent to read everything.
I need to get the f. me tattoo removed from my forehead, apparently it's quite effective. Sorry, JMHO right now.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2009, 10:56 AM
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Nobody thinks badly of you. If anything, we all empathize with you. We have all been taken at one time or another. I gave a 21 year old kid $5700 for a stolen snowmobile. It took me 9 months to the day to hunt him down and get all my money back. Was I stupid? Probably, but my biggest fault was thinking this baby-faced kid was a straight shooter and trusting him. Red flags should have gone up when he asked for cash, but he had a sob story about that too, and I believed him.
Now you have learned something and will be wiser the next time. We all learn the same way, by making mistakes.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
it doesn't have a frame
I am aware of that.

I imagine you are too.

...and the original poster who referred to the uni body as a frame seems to certainly be aware of the damage he is dealing with.

Do you have anything useful to add?

What would you do if you were in the same situation?

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
I was waiting for that one.
I know, but if I said they straightened the frame we all get the point right?
Not sure about the 1st shop, taking it back. If they guy was slick enough to squeeze an extra 250 out of me then I can't even imagine how bad I'd get ripped if I said fix it at any cost. I believe the guy ripped me off. Not that I paid too much he ripped me off.

And maybe I wasn't in a business suit or whatever when I pulled up, maybe it's because I had the car apart and they seen me as driving a s. pile I don't know but the shop owner said he could do it for $xxxx.xx, we can save more money if you pay with cash, etc.

So as I'm filling out the paperwork he said you know thats going to get destroyed when the job is done right.
ok....I guess.

Well I didn't realize at the time that this makes it impossible to do anything, I can't contact the BBB, I have no proof my car was ever there. Same with any kind of warranty. The guy took advantage of my ignorance and screwed me.

I plead guilty, I did wrong, I'll step down from the stand and take my sentence of looking at this crap work for the duration of my owning the car.
This thread is turning into an online court room. I never in my life thought that a trip to the body shop would lead to me being f d in so many ways and thought of badly by people on the internet.
I could also say to the smart as. s earlier in the thread that I got rear ended by some truck that hit and ran instead of taking the honest route and admitting to me being at fault in a single car accident.

I guess it obvious I'm getting tired of talking about this. I do appreciate the time anyone spent to read everything.
I need to get the f. me tattoo removed from my forehead, apparently it's quite effective. Sorry, JMHO right now.
As Dan wrote, we have all been there before.

Anyone who hasn't does not deserve an opinion and is only trolling for their own entertainment.

I have purchased old cars without titles and believed the "titles in the mail" line before.

I have paid for shoddy insurance jobs.

I have paid the price for being a Marine and being ripped off by the buzzards that make their livings off of Marines outside of bases.

(Nothing says "F-Me" like military haircut in a military base town)

The vultures know that you are going to be deployed every 3-6 months.



You have learned a lesson and you have had a chance to sound off about it.

You have rationalized the problem and you have not killed anyone yet, so you are probably good to go.

Hope the scum bags get equal treatment and move on.

Let others know about what happened regardless.

Remember to pay with checks or CC in the future.

Karma is a ****.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2009, 06:33 PM
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