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Old 03-05-2009, 03:17 PM
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How do I get a shop to do work properly?

This is sort of a follow up to this post.
I spun and the rear hit a guardrail. The first shop I asked to straighten the frame/unibody. They did a lot of hammering to get the rear panel back to shape. Then went $250 over the estimate, which was cash under the table.
Heres how I got the car back from them.
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...y/IMG_0016.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...y/IMG_0015.jpg
Ok I was a bit mad because they said they pulled the frame straight yet there are no clamp marks anywhere on the car except for the two rear corners. I know they did not tie onto anything, they pulled against the car in park and hammered it.

So getting to the question. I took it to another shop for paint.
It's a 2001 camaro, the whole body is SMC or urethane, dent resistant right.
So I told this shop that I wanted the 1/4's smoothed and painted. They only have some dings and the primer spots from the other shop.
I also pointed out a section on the drivers rear that was real bad.

Ok, so I get the car back today and the drivers side where I pointed to is perfect, yet there is a ding under the area, and a ding in front of the area, like 3" away!
The passenger side, all I have to say is F-ing idiots.
Wavy where the other shop put the primer, all the dings are still there.

What am I doing wrong? These are the two top shops in town.
Is it common for a shop to paint BLACK right over dings and wavy panels?

Please tell me what I'm doing wrong because I'm tired of being screwed over.
Heres a video to show the finished product. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sSYH5_bquA

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Old 03-05-2009, 08:01 PM
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I think the only way you can get a job done right, is to open your own shop and hold any employee to a higher standard.

The true craftsman with a sense of pride in their work is dying out... we now have the "would you like some fries with your fender" generation... good luck!
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:55 AM
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Maybe try being very specific in what it is you want and let them know that if they cant do it right you will not pay them. And if they do the job to exceed your expectations then stop by with some beer or pizza or what ever when you pick up your car. That will show appreciation for there hard work and hopefully give them incentive towards their next customer. The thing to realize is a lot of people don't notice dings or little ripples so if they can get away with it they will. Best advice be very descriptive in your expectations before handing over the keys to your ride.
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:40 AM
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Yea, I see your point. But are people this dumb?
I could have said cover up the primer since the rest of the panels are brand new looking. Thats about what they heard me say.

If someone who works at a body shop reads all this can you tell me your thoughts on what taking the dents out and smoothing the 1/4's means to you?

When I brought the car back the guy even questioned himself about asking more questions about what I wanted.

To put in in the simplest of words---I bring a nice shiney car with some dings in it to a body shop and say paint it. Do you scuff and spray leaving the end result exactly the same as what you started with.

And this isn't a beer and pizza shop. It seems like a pretty tight operation.

This is part of whats wrong with the economy IMO. Your cars going to look like *** after they paint it so dont bother go buy a few spray cans.
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:08 AM
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this is the same experience I've had every single time my car was repaired professionally. I now think I'll buy the stuff and do it myself...

Not that they are all that way mind you...
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barthmonster
Not that they are all that way mind you...
Not to go off on a rampage or anything but they seem to be all like that.
I had a guy get mad and kicked the door of a '97 mustang I was driving.
Took that to a shop and said I do not want to see any sign of this dent ever being there because it reminds me of this a hole that kicked it. I said I'll buy a new door if I have to. This guy said , man calm down this is basic stuff, we can make that disappear. Well guess what when I went to pick it up, yup. I said no, can't do it and left. The owner looked at me like a sad puppy like he was saying just take it please. I said no, no, you can't see that? I'm not taking this.

Making it short I had a truck that the radiator core support was replaced and tack welded in four spots. Thats four 3/16" dots on a panel that has about fourty inches of overlapping metal it's supposed to be welded to.

I'll stop there and say all body shop guys I've dealt with are idiots, I can only assume they all are.

It's obvious I'm a guy into cars, do it right for me because I know what right looks like. The 80 year old lady--you can get buy with a wham bam pay and get the ******* out job for her, she'll be too overwhelmed by the shiney paint and silicone hosed down shiney tires to care that her door hinge just got a tack weld holding it in place.

Any body shop guys want to throw around some excuses?
Come on, lets hear the BS.
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:03 PM
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body work

Your first line says cash under the table- if you want to deal with people
who will cheat the government and think you are going to be treated better
by them- You get what you pay for. Deal with a reputable shop in an
above board manner and hold them to agreed apon written standards and
you will tend to get better results. Deal with low ball estimates and cash
under the table types and it is much more hit or miss. Some guys are
able to do a professional job on a side line basis and sometimes they are
just able to do take your money and give you crap. The odds are not in
your favor unless you have been given excellent referrals from people you
trust- a good idea even in dealing with reputable shops. Hope you have
better choices/luck in the future. Jim
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Old 03-06-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetnow1
Your first line says cash under the table- if you want to deal with people
who will cheat the government and think you are going to be treated better
by them- You get what you pay for. Deal with a reputable shop in an
above board manner and hold them to agreed apon written standards and
you will tend to get better results. Deal with low ball estimates and cash
under the table types and it is much more hit or miss. Jim
The cash under the table guy was the first body shop in the city, very, very well known cars regularly seen at local car shows winning top awards, well known in the community, etc. Does high end restorations, etc.
The guy was in a good enough mood to show me legitimate invoices from a bunch of six figure restorations he recently did.

The way I see all that is me, in there with a maybe $8000 Z28= not a big deal, hammer and roll it out. I'm not exactly a kid or a typical Z28 driver by any means either.
Just not getting six figures from me so why give my car the time of day, hammer it out and get back on the old stuff, get back to the money. He had about 5 old restorations going on at the time.
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low budget rodder
I think the only way you can get a job done right, is to open your own shop and hold any employee to a higher standard.

The true craftsman with a sense of pride in their work is dying out... we now have the "would you like some fries with your fender" generation... good luck!

Unfortunately, IMHO, you are 100 percent right with every word you typed. I can speak for my own abilities here (and probably more than a dozen others as well...), in that the best way to make sure any job done is done to your standards is to either (a) do it totally on your own, or (b) babysit and coddle the guy who is doing the work for you. Happens all day, every day in nearly every occupation out there. Also unfortunately, I'd bet most of the guys with a real "can do" attitude to work standards that match the O.P.'s are not inexpensive. Talk about a double edge sword....


Ina while, Chet.
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:56 PM
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The first shop hosed you for sure ..Second shop couldn't see how bad the first one did ,,

They should have verified how bad it was before beginning.

How much did all this cost ?...
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by action4478
The first shop hosed you for sure ..Second shop couldn't see how bad the first one did ,,

They should have verified how bad it was before beginning.

How much did all this cost ?...
First shop quoted $1200 and I had a rear panel cut out, I was expecting a panel replacement. I got the call that it was done and it was $1450 with just the rear panel hammered out. I'll give the guy crdit, it was hammered out and pulled with some talent. I can see replacing the panel being worth $1200. But hammering it all, getting the interior filled with dust and primer over spray not worth $250 more, let alone 1200.

Second shop quoted $1060 but took $950.

I just got back from a friends house. He agreed that they did not do a good job. It wasn't worth the money. But he said to just leave it, I guess going by the fact that you don't see it unless you look for it. But anyone who's into cars is going to see that it's not right. Maybe I can impress some highschool kids or old women. But anyone into cars is going to see another camaro with a garbage body.

Still open to body shop workers/owners comments.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:21 PM
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I'm a bit curious. Why did you take the car to one shop for part of the work and to another shop for the painting? It seems to me that you are not being completely candid about the whole process. I am also surprised that the pros in this forum haven't commented on this thread, which also makes me wonder..........?!?
In my own profession, if someone brings me something that has already been worked on by someone else I am concerned as to the reason why, and am inclined to refuse to take the job. We have all have had customers ( and I'm not saying you are such a customer) who can't be satisfied no matter what. Also, if you are that worried about the quality of the work, you should know how much work is involved to make it as perfect as you wanted it and price should not be a part of the equation. In the skilled trades, you do get what you pay for. Not trying to cut you down, but no one wants to get stuck because they quoted one price and the actual job took more labor or materials than anticipated. JMHO.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
I'm a bit curious. Why did you take the car to one shop for part of the work and to another shop for the painting? .
Said it twice. If you didn't catch it, they did less work and charged more money than agreed on in the estimate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
It seems to me that you are not being completely candid about the whole process. .
Ok, again the first shop said they'd replace the panel for $xxxx, they instead hammered it back to shape for $xxx more and did not call for my approval on the difference or anything ONE.
The interior was trashed with sanding dust and primer overspray TWO.
They said they pulled the chassis straight yet there are no marks on anything where they clamped it to do this THREE AND A BIG THREE, yes they pulled the corner pinchwelds against the tires in park enough to beat the rear panel. How do I know they didn't clamp it anywhere? I bought the car as a roller and put an engine and transmission in it. When I first looked at it, it was up on a 2 or 3 foot car roller I'VE SEEN UNDERNEATH IT, plus I had the car transported from TX to FL, they chain it down attaching to mounting points on the bottom I'VE SEEN THESE, in the past three months I've put a full exhaust under the car, two weeks before it was in the shop I had the transmission out to put in a torque converter. When I first got the car I touched up the undercoating. Unlike most people I am very familiar with the underside of my car.
This leads me to believe the shop did not pull the frame, they lied, there are no new marks under the car, no fresh undercoat, nothing. I paid for work that wasn't done.
IS THAT A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO GO TO ANOTHER SHOP? IS IT CANDID ENOUGH?

Ok, second shop wants to make money, why refuse work? Tell me this I AM ASKING YOU WHY THEY WOULD REFUSE MONEY, WHY WOULD THEY TELL ME TO TAKE IT TO THE OTHER SHOP?




Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
In my own profession, if someone brings me something that has already been worked on by someone else I am concerned as to the reason why, and am inclined to refuse to take the job. We have all have had customers ( and I'm not saying you are such a customer) who can't be satisfied no matter what. Also, if you are that worried about the quality of the work, you should know how much work is involved to make it as perfect as you wanted it and price should not be a part of the equation. In the skilled trades, you do get what you pay for. .
Second shop. Is asking for an estimate a sign of me being a tightwad? Does that mean I want a lot of work for little?
NO, it means I want to get an idea of what I'm spending. It means I feel the need to tell them what I want done. What do you suggest I drop it off and they either buff it or do a full restoration, I think I should clue them in on what I want done.

Getting to what I want done. Smooth the quarter panels out, get rid of dings like this here (as I point to an area) finish the two primered areas from the other shop, and paint the bumper cover. whats it cost? $xxxx.xx OK great, I'll leave it with you guys to do the work.
DOES THAT POINT TO ME HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THE PRICE?

Ok now I pick the car up.
The only body work done was the area I pointed to AS I SAID ALL THE DENTS AND DINGS LIKE THIS ONE, NOT JUST THIS ONE!

TELL ME THIS: there are a few dings here and there. why on earth would they fix a 10" by 4" section and leave two dings 3 inches from this area untouched?
Why fix that 10 x 4 area perfect on one side and scuff and paint right over waves and dings on the other.

OK I went back and asked the guy. The guy said he wasn't clear on what I wanted done, he said I got what I paid for, they did all the work I was quoted on.

SO HERES ONE I'D REALLY LIKE TO HEAR SOMEONE HAVE THE BALLS TO ANSWER.
YOU TAKE A CAR IN TO GET PAINTED. HOW MANY PEOPLE SAY OF ALL THE DINGS, DENTS, AND WAVES, I ONLY WANT THIS ONE FIXED THE REST YOU CAN PAINT OVER?
WHAT THE HELL KIND OF SENSE DOES THAT MAKE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
Not trying to cut you down, but no one wants to get stuck because they quoted one price and the actual job took more labor or materials than anticipated. JMHO.
Not trying to cut YOU down but I'm sick of explaining this obvious screw up to people who "don't get it"

If they quoted me $2000 MORE and it was done PROPERLY I'd be happy right now and never would have posted this.
IS THIS CLEAR ENOUGH?
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:45 PM
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SO HERES ONE I'D REALLY LIKE TO HEAR SOMEONE HAVE THE BALLS TO ANSWER.
YOU TAKE A CAR IN TO GET PAINTED. HOW MANY PEOPLE SAY OF ALL THE DINGS, DENTS, AND WAVES, I ONLY WANT THIS ONE FIXED THE REST YOU CAN PAINT OVER?
WHAT THE HELL KIND OF SENSE DOES THAT MAKE?


Many times an insurance adjuster has said to just fix the dent our insured caused.. it's called pre-collision condition..
It's tough to paint over pre existing dings and dents but often they are left in an effort to not affect a blend..

It's not a perfect world...not everyone is a customer,
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:54 PM
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'Jason' reality bites.

Try not hitting a 'guardrail' next time.

Do not treat DanTwoLakes that way. His Intentions were good.
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