how do ya know if your coil springs are shot? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 01:35 PM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,529
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
how do ya know if your coil springs are shot?

i know shocks wont stop your car from bouncing when you push on it, but is there a test like that for springs? and what do you look for? (72 camaro)

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 01:37 PM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,857
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 20
Thanked 246 Times in 200 Posts
Sagginess.............................I won't make a reference about women on this one.....
__________________
Ontario Rodders
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 01:43 PM
ChevelleSS_LS6's Avatar
Jeep XJ and a Javelin
 
Last wiki edit: Compression test
Last journal entry: August 9, part III
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Age: 28
Posts: 1,610
Wiki Edits: 7

Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
/\if women are saggy, they were prolly nice when younger. You see, no nice when young=no sag when old

and/or- x niceness when young (well there's a point where it gets to be too much)=x sag when old

it's a tradeoff I guess. Too young to really know if my above formula is correct or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 04:41 PM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,529
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
okay. basically i'm trying to decide if i need new springs. but.... i WANT to lower my front end!!!! so WHY BOTHER buying new springs if i can just cut my existing ones? there's gotta be more to it than sag, or is there....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 05:39 PM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When they start hitting the stops on the lower control arm usually. That and sag. Even new shocks won't improve the ride.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 06:57 PM
advanced design's Avatar
Just havin' fun.....
 

Last journal entry: Wheels and tires
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oblong, Illinois
Age: 53
Posts: 646
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullheimer
i know shocks wont stop your car from bouncing when you push on it, but is there a test like that for springs? and what do you look for? (72 camaro)
The service manual will provide a ride height specification. I don't recall on the Camaro but generally you take a measurement from the bottom of the spindle to the ground, record it, take a measurement from the lower control arm bushing center, record it the determine the difference between the two recorded measurements. Compare this to the specification to see if you have saggy springs. I wouldn't suggest cutting springs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 09:13 PM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,529
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
my hgt from center of wheel (spindle) to fender lip is 14.75 and 15" is spozed to be exact stock hgt for a second gen 'maro. so it's sagging 1/4 inch which is no big deal other than the springs are 32 yrs old and the front end is comin apart anyway, AND i want to lower the front an inch. that means cut a half a coil out. i dont see what the big deal would be, so many other people have cut them. i would use a saw and not a torch. but i have also heard of putting a torch on them and just melting the spring till the car comes to rest on a jack stand, i suppose, to stop it at the desired hgt. now THAT doesn't exactly sound too kosher, but i dont see what would be wrong with cuting it with a cut off tool or a sawzall, (other than going thru blades!) i think for the cheap price of $70/pair for moog springs, a seller could tell me one that would drop my car and inch or 1.5".

question, if i cut it, what does that to do the spring rate (#'s/inch?)

Q-2, if i have stock 14" tires on now and i'm going to a 225x15", is tire hgt different?

ps, the car in question is my avatar, click on the upper right "photo album" and you can see/judge how much i should lower it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2005, 10:02 PM
speede5's Avatar
go fast, turn left!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Moose Jaw, Sk. Canada
Age: 44
Posts: 267
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1st off shocks do stop a car from bouncing, springs are compressed by weight transfer and try to extend to return the car to ride height. with no shock the car will bounce forever. Sorry, you probably knew that and just had a typo in your first post.

If you can corner and feel your front end load up nice and even your springs are probably still good enough to fool around with. If the car rolls hard or bottoms out your springs are probably done anway.

The best thing to do is to cut out a coil (I'm not sure what the rule is for coils to inches) with a chop saw or cutting wheel but keep cooling it while you cut. This will lower the front end but shouldn't drastically affect your spring rate so the ride won't change much. If you use a torch to sag your springs you are changing the characteristics of the metal and while you will be able to set your ride height quite easily your aged spring won't work as well in the end. You will probably bottom out quite easily and the car won't rebound with any authority.

If you don't get the desired effect either way you can get springs for the camaro suspension that will give you 1-2 inch drops. Check the suspension companies, with the amount of people throwing that subframe under hotrods you can get anything you need. If you want to go 2" or more you will definately need to go to a dropped spindle as your camber gets all out of shape. You will want to check this even with a 1" drop. You may want to shim your control arm after. As for your tire you will have to get manuacturers specs to see the overall diameter of the tires you have and the ones you want. Even 2 identical tires (185/75/14) from different manufacturers can have a different diameter. Most man. have all the dimensions on their websites or in their catalogs.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/89858/
http://www.brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1999OCT/50007837.shtml
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2005, 05:22 AM
Hippie's Avatar
Analog man in a digital world.
 

Last journal entry: HEI comparison.
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullheimer
Q-2, if i have stock 14" tires on now and i'm going to a 225x15", is tire hgt different?
Tire diameter for a 225-60 X 15 is: 225 times 60 divided by 2540 which gives you your sidewall height. Multiply that by 2 and add the wheel diameter. That will give you your tire height with no load on it. A 225-60X15 is close to a 225-70 or 75 X 14 in OD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullheimer
ps, the car in question is my avatar, click on the upper right "photo album" and you can see/judge how much i should lower it
Based on the pictures your Camaro does NOT sag in fact it appears that it might have big block springs in it. Being a throwback to the 70's I'd probably leave it where it is put some little skinny 15 X 4 wheels up front and a set of 15 X 10's out back with 295-50's on it. Then again I'd be real tempted to drop it about 3" at both ends and put some 17 or 18" wheels on it with 245-40's up front and 275 or 295's out back. But that's me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2005, 08:58 AM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,529
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
yeah, hard to pick a style, but since my tempest has 17's and 255's i'll go with the smaller front bigger back. i'd like to just cut the springs, but they are 33 years old so, i dunno. they are only $70/pr . my car isn't as high in front as alot of them, seems to be level. still might just get new ones anyway, but now i dont think i NEED them


thanks you guys, i got the answer i was looking for.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2005, 09:15 AM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,384
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
You are worrying about nothing. Springs always take a set and lower a little in service. As long as they don't bottom out your suspension or sag more on one side than the other, they are fine. They don't lose their spring rate which is the important parameter in suspension function. I have heard of leaf springs breaking (E-ticket ride if you are in the car when it snaps!) but I have never heard of a coil blowing. Probably happens but is rare. I prefer junk yard MII coils over brand new ones on all my suspension swaps 'cause I know for sure they are exactly where they will be forever. No more settling will occur so I can set ride height and it won't change.

Use a torch to cut off half a coil at a time to set your new ride height. Sure, a torch will cause heat damage to the spring metal but the damage will be confined to within 1/4" of the cut which won't bother the spring function in the slightest. A real hassle to take out the spring several times but better to do the deed in small steps than in one too big step. The advantage of doing it with seasoned springs is that they will stay where you put them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2005, 12:40 PM
malc's Avatar
Living At The Speed Of Life
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: España Right Coast
Age: 63
Posts: 3,242
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 86
Thanked 71 Times in 68 Posts
My father had a Ford Sierra and that had both coil springs break on the front,
luckily not at the same time and it was´nt severe enough to cause any handling problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2005, 01:33 PM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,857
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 20
Thanked 246 Times in 200 Posts
I have seen a number of GM coil springs that have broken about 1 coil from the bottom.........sure that yours hasn't?
__________________
Ontario Rodders
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2005, 05:28 PM
bullheimer's Avatar
NEVER use credit cards!
 

Last journal entry: car with tt2's, (stockers going back on)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North of Seattle
Posts: 2,529
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
hmmm. i really havent noticed any big handling problems other than the disintegration of my control arm bushings, which makes noise. i know i could keep the stock springs and shocks too for that matter, but they look like hell under there and i think new units will help me sell it. i am dumping the shocks as well as replacing the c.a. bushings so i might as well do something with the springs. they are covered with crap. it's almost easier to buy new ones $60/pr) than to waste time scraping oil and crap off and then painting them. i got advised to put a 350lb spring on my camaro. does that sound good to anyone. i know several (web friends) who are using a 425lb spring (moog 5610), but i think they drive harder than me. stock rate for my car is only 300lbs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2005, 05:57 PM
1Fast65Elky's Avatar
Left Nut, Right Nut....Squish!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2004
Location: California
Age: 32
Posts: 363
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How's a hacksaws lifespan cutting the coils, does it die pretty fast or have somewhat of a fighting chance against these? A blade per coil or somethin?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raising front end 1" with coil springs JUSTINH Suspension - Brakes - Steering 12 02-15-2009 09:36 PM
1956 Buick Coil Springs Maverick Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 04-07-2005 01:42 PM
Front coil springs BinderRod1939 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 04-04-2004 01:12 AM
heating coil springs kid Suspension - Brakes - Steering 5 11-10-2003 08:17 PM
Front Coil Springs Cecil Stainback Engine 0 10-10-2003 08:52 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.