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Old 05-19-2017, 01:01 PM
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How to fix no forward clutch clearance in a 4l60e ??

How to fix no forward clutch clearance in a 4l60e ??

Need some help for you smart guys on hotrodders.

Its been a few years since my last rebuild and i have a new problem.

My case was damaged so i got a 2004 4l60e to replace my 2000 4l60e.

When setting up the forward clutch pack with the 5 steels and 5 frictions i get no clearance. i have to remove one of the clutches to get .060' clearance.

I know there are difference thickness backing plates, but i don't have time.

Q. is one clutch less a problem ?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old yukon View Post
How to fix no forward clutch clearance in a 4l60e ??

Need some help for you smart guys on hotrodders.

Its been a few years since my last rebuild and i have a new problem.

My case was damaged so i got a 2004 4l60e to replace my 2000 4l60e.

When setting up the forward clutch pack with the 5 steels and 5 frictions i get no clearance. i have to remove one of the clutches to get .060' clearance.

I know there are difference thickness backing plates, but i don't have time.

Q. is one clutch less a problem ?

Thanks in advance.

.060 is too much GM and larger transmission shops have selective thickness backing plates in 3 or 4 thicknesses you need this kit.


Bogie
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old yukon (05-19-2017)
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:47 PM
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Take the time now rather than later.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:10 PM
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Is it possible that you have the wrong forward clutches? There are different forward friction thicknesses available. If you got the THICK ones, and need the THIN ones, that is your problem.

Your stack should be "Over-run clutch backing plate, forward clutch wave plate, forward clutch steel, friction, steel, friction, steel, friction, steel, friction, steel, friction, forward clutch backing plate. Check and make sure you don't have an extra steel on the bottom of the stack.

Transtar book shows two different thicknesses of forward clutch frictions.

And NO! I would not try and run it minus one clutch, with that much clearance.

Also, if that output shaft to input drum seal is the HARD PLASTIC type, you need to discard that IMMEDIATELY and not run it. The later 60E's use a softer seal that is less likely to break down/crack. Failure at that seal will cause planetary set failure.

If you have a 700R4 O/R backing plate in there, it will be thicker than a 60E plate and that may be the cause of your stack clearance issue. If you were close to me, we could fix it immediately for you for free. I'm in Houston, stop on by!
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:19 PM
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Thanks for the reply guys.

Your right taking short cuts now = suffering latter on, better safe then sorry.

My stack is as you said :
"Your stack should be "Over-run clutch backing plate, forward clutch wave plate, forward clutch steel, friction, steel, friction, steel, friction, steel, friction, steel, friction, forward clutch backing plate. "

The steels are .090 and the clutches are .070 , I'll hunt around for a few new thinner steels.

Is this the seal, if so i have the flexible one. ( see below)


If I were in Huston now I would take up your offer Transmech and be knocking on your door now.

I really appreciate the help guys, great advice.

Old Yukon
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:37 PM
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Alto has them, found this which is very helpful.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:59 PM
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2000 4l60e and 2004 4l60e forward clutches and steels are different, your clearance should be around .035. Make sure you use the wave plate and don't remove it or you will have a harsh forward engagement.
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Old 05-21-2017, 03:03 PM
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Old Yukon-yes, the seal you have pictured is CORRECT.

Carl Brown I have not had the same experience as you. We intentionally delete the wave plate in most of our rebuilds. We do this for one simple reason, if you have ever disassembled a 200+K mile unit, you will notice that the first friction, or first, second, and third, will have burn marks on them from the pressure spots where the wave plate actually applies on the first steel. It's like those pressure points transfer through to the frictions and burn them. You will see the raised blisters across all of the steels. By replacing that wave plate with a new flat steel, you are certain to have even pressure across the entire surface of the clutch stack.

Remember, the wave plate was used in the 700R4 to cushion forward engagement. The 4L60E has a forward accumulator on the valve body specifically for this reason. Why GM continued to run both the wave plate and the forward accumulator is one I'd like the answer to. However, I have not noticed any harsh forward clutch engagement by deleting the wave plate. The only vehicles we leave the wave plate in are stock rebuilds on the 700R4's, and also the 1993 & 1994 4L60E's as they for sure WILL HAVE a noticeable bump on forward engagement if you delete the wave plate. In all performance applications we delete the wave plate as high stall converters will mask a firm engagement. 4x4 trucks will exhibit a little metallic "clink" or "click" on drive engagement (when the wave plate is left out) due to the extra slop in the transfer case, and the differential being taken up.

I have literally thousands of units running around right now all across the country with the wave plate deleted. If it were going to be an issue, I would have known years ago. Keep in mind though that you must think of the entire picture-if you are artificially raising line pressure through tuning, or mechanically by altering the set screw on the back of the EPC (this is a NO! NO!) then you should retain the wave plate or forward engagement will be obnoxious and driveline components may suffer from the hammering.

In the OP's case, I don't think there is a reason he would need to delete the cushion plate.. so most of this was just me having too much time on my hands on a Sunday afternoon.

OP, as a test, remove the Over run frictions & steels, and then lay the over run backing plate in first and then build your forward clutch pack up from there. I'm just wanting to be sure that your problem is not under the forward stack. If your forward clearances are correct with the O/R clutches & steels out, then you know your problem is in that section.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:11 AM
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Thanks for the reply guys.

Transtech so should we go with the wave steel or not, this is a daily drive ?

Would removing the wave steel effect the longevity of the tranny ?
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:16 PM
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OY-will leaving out the wave plate affect durability/longevity-Yes, IMO, for the better!

Should you leave it out? Not until, and unless, you have figured out your stack clearance issue. Once you get your stack clearance corrected with the wave plate in place, you can then decide whether or not to delete the wave plate as replacing it with a flat steel will make for perfect clearance-when everything else is correct.

After that, it's a matter of personal preference. You will NOT notice any difference on forward engagement between running the wave plate, or a flat steel. The only time you would notice an engagement is if for some reason your engine was idling higher than normal (above 1000RPM) and you put the shifter into drive... Then you might notice a firm engagement. Barring that, all will be as it was before should you delete the wave plate.
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:23 PM
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thanks boss !!
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:46 AM
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Just some feedback.

I tried a new forward clutch stack up without the wavey plate and flat steel in its place.

Guess what? I got clearence at 0.031, that looks good.

If eliminating the wavey plate is no big issue, then i should be good to go.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:04 AM
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From 1996+ in the GM trucks, shifting from Park to Drive or Neutral to drive, the IAC motor will reduce idle rpm the PCM table is called "IAC Momentary Increase for Park/Neutral to Drive". In fact there are about 8 separate PCM tables in a 1997 PCM that deal directly with the engine control while shifting into and out of drive in the Auto Transmissions. As with everything else, I can only assume that the newer the PCM/ECM the more tables there would be. (I don't have an early 00's truck calibration to view at the moment)

peace
Hog

Last edited by Hogg; 05-25-2017 at 10:04 AM. Reason: date correction
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