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-   -   How to handle this (pictures inside) (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how-handle-pictures-inside-228092.html)

RatPin 01-07-2013 02:52 PM

How to handle this (pictures inside)
 
A couple weeks back I picked up a '59 bel air that had a cheap paint job done about 7 years ago (Earl Shieb). It had some blistering at the bottom of the doors and on the rockers. Now keep in mind I bought this car for a driver and I don/t want to dig into it too deep since I am already up to my elbows in another frame up build. I want to do a quick fix on the areas pictures below. Quick fix meaning no cutting or welding, and yes I know it will be just covering it up to a degreea and I'm sure it will rear it's ugly head again at some point down the road, but for now I just want it smooth and protected as best it can be without adding metal and doing it (properly).

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...B3B0D804B4.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...B3BC3ADEBA.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...B3C40E3CBA.jpg


Please lend advice as to what you might think would work best to seal this up for as long as possible. I was thinking to just wire it clean from the outside, put some Metal Ready on it and then skim it over with All Metal or similar product.

Again, I know to most and even to me this seems like doing a hack job, but right now I just want to have it smooth and be able to drive it while I finish my other project. I can do it right at a later date when I have the time and shop space to do so.

Thanks!

MARTINSR 01-07-2013 03:16 PM

I have to tell you, I would have left it alone. My daily driver 59 Rambler as a spot similar to that, the rest of the car is nice, it staying like that. It IS a driver and when people see an old car like ours, they are impressed it's even on the road. When it is largely in nice shape they don't even see that stuff. I have had people ask if I recently restored it thinking it was a work of art and it is FAR from that (brush touches all over it). If you have your passions on that frame off (I have the same thing in my life) I would have left it alone.

However, that isn't a choice now is it. It is so hard to do anything that will last very long at all. But if you use a reinforced filler like Everglass and you spray some cavity wax inside to protect it you are going to be about as good as you can be. I know that I saw a lot of this type of repair when I was a paint rep, up on the north coast of California where the salt air eats car alive. I was in a shop I serviced and he was making "repairs" like this on a school bus. This was not the type of work he generally did and I asked him about this and he said the school district would give him a bus like this every once in a while and he did this funky repair and it kept the bus on the road another year or two. Up there, that is darn impressive so if another year or two is what you are after (damn that year or two goes by fast) then there you have it, Everglass, tap in the holes some what so you have a dent with the hole at the bottom. Treat it just like any other dent you would be filling with filler. But fill over the whole thing with Everglass first. Cut it flat and put a skim coat of polyester putty or regular filler over it, prime and paint and cruise with a smile on your face.

Brian

RatPin 01-07-2013 03:37 PM

Hey thanks! I really tried to live with it but the blisters were too much in fact after washing it when I popped them there was actually water in some of them. These were on the trunk lid with clean metal behind them. Blew my mind.

The previous owner kept this thing outside for the last two years in rainy Oregon under a very absorbant car cover and it lifted the paint on the roof really bad. The areas I pictured are just the spots that appear to be all the way through or very close anyway.

I hate bodywork and am not very good at it at all, so I really wanted to keep the patching to a minimum so It doesn't end up looking worse than it did before. As you can see there is quite a bit of filler on it already so working over that may be tricky.

I appreciate all advice and opinions.

tech69 01-07-2013 07:10 PM

I'd get a metal conditioner like rust mort and let it set on there overnight(don't get it on the mud). Then after it's neutralized and off the panel I'd glass it like Martin said. If you're willing to take off the inner door panel you can also brush on some zero rust or on the cheap, rustoleum. Might buy you a little time.

496CHEVY3100 01-07-2013 07:27 PM

you can also use a product called por 15 -*paint over rust-apply let dry overnight then apply filler over it ,it will not cure rust ,but it will stop ary farther rust if you can get it inside even better, this is what i use there are other products that may not be best I like it had no problems ,Do Not get it where you dont want it.VERY hard to sand off even with 40 grit paper

John long 01-07-2013 07:39 PM

Every ones advise above is good. One thing you can do is take tubes of Epoxy cement and mix them with fiberglass cloth cut up into small 1/4 inch slivers. Add the slivers of fiberglass to the epoxy cement until it becomes a paste and apply that instead of body filler. It is significantly stronger than the body filler and will take a little longer to begin to bubble. It WILL NOT give you a permanent fix. Just last a little longer.

Do not use polyester resin. It is not strong enough. Use Epoxy cement or Epoxy resin only.

I hate to admit it but I did this in the 70's as a 20 something year old and got a few years out of an old Merc I had.

John L.

MARTINSR 01-07-2013 08:12 PM

John, the Everglass is fiberglass reinforced. It is a short strand fiberglass. Evercoat

http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/products/Everglass.jpg


There is a longer strand fiberglass like Kitty hair.
Evercoat

http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/products/Kitty%20Hair.jpg

Then of course the long strand Tiger Hair
Evercoat

http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/products/Tiger%20Hair.jpg

I have found that these products are an amazing quality. Being the rust is merely a hole and not collapsed in or anything like that the shortest hair would be my choice because it is o easy to work with, not much different than regular "bondo". The Tiger Hair is crazy difficult and only needed for busted up fiberglass or something like that. It is a serious PIA to work with.

That Everglass is a killer product for something like this.

Brian

John long 01-07-2013 08:20 PM

Those are all far superior to body filler Brian but they are based on polyester resin. The epoxy is just one more step up the chain as far as adhesion and strength goes. It is similar to what your new body adhesives are if I am not mistaken.

John L

MARTINSR 01-07-2013 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John long (Post 1632008)
Those are all far superior to body filler Brian but they are based on polyester resin. The epoxy is just one more step up the chain as far as adhesion and strength goes. It is similar to what your new body adhesives are if I am not mistaken.

John L

AHHHHH

Brian

RatPin 01-07-2013 08:22 PM

Thanks for all the solid advice guys. I appreciate it much better than the criticism I've gotten on other forums. I like to do stuff right, I do, and if I was better at sheet metal repair I would go the correct route. I'm sure many of you could very efficiently to a proper metal repair on something like this. I would spend way more time at it and the results may still be disappointing to look at.

Free beer and food for any sheet metal guy that wants to help with doing it right in a timely manner!!!

RatPin 01-07-2013 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John long (Post 1632008)
Those are all far superior to body filler Brian but they are based on polyester resin. The epoxy is just one more step up the chain as far as adhesion and strength goes. It is similar to what your new body adhesives are if I am not mistaken.

John L

Can you recommend a particular kind of epoxy that yoou have used? Is it sandable?

John long 01-07-2013 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RatPin (Post 1632010)
Thanks for all the solid advice guys. I appreciate it much better than the criticism I've gotten on other forums. I like to do stuff right, I do, and if I was better at sheet metal repair I would go the correct route. I'm sure many of you could very efficiently to a proper metal repair on something like this. I would spend way more time at it and the results may still be disappointing to look at.

Free beer and food for any sheet metal guy that wants to help with doing it right in a timely manner!!!

It is easy for us to get cocky when we have our MIG welders, Beverly shears and other equipment in our garages RatPin. I had to laugh when my buddy tore down a car this week that I had built in 1972. They could not believe I had hidden a seam in the quarter panel that was joined with pop rivets and epoxy resin. At that time I owned a ball peen hammer and a pair of channel locks. :) The point is it worked for 40 years. I would not even think of doing that today but at the time it was the best I could do. It worked because I had the panels clean, rust free and protected from moisture on both sides. I used Stainless rivets and good epoxy. Maybe I was a pioneer in auto body repair. Now they recommend gluing quarter panels on. :thumbup:

Good luck to you.

John L

John long 01-07-2013 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RatPin (Post 1632012)
Can you recommend a particular kind of epoxy that yoou have used? Is it sandable?

I don't think the brand is critical. I have used hardware Epoxy cement. Mixed both tubes in an old glass ashtray and added my fiberglass matt until I had the consistency I wanted. Yes, it is sand able but does sand harder than filler. The way I made my strands was to take woven fiberglass cloth. Use a sharp pair of scissors and cut the cloth at a 45% angle in thin strips giving you short 3/8 +- shreds of strand. Once it is cured rough it up with 80 grit and finish with a good body filler.

John L

deadbodyman 01-08-2013 06:03 AM

You have to address the rust issue if you want it to lastat all...I'd suggest cleaning out the rust spots with a wire wheel on a die grinder then applying Ospho and while its wet wheel it again wipe off all the access with a paper shop toweland let it dry,come back the next day and sand the area with 80 or 180 then wax & grease it ,then epoxy prime it...This will stop the rust dead in its tracks and the bubbles wont be back,The cosmetic work is up to you but I would normaly use a finishing putty to fill the pits because its soupier and fills the small pits better than fillers ..Then go to a filler, If you just go from primer to filler you might skim over the pits and have an air pocket that can give you problems later on..You can substitute the finishing putty for epoxy glue to fill the pits, its harder to sand but makes a better,longer lasting repair...After all the filler work is done use an epoxy primer again, to cover and seal it..... You can get the Ospho at the body shop supply store Or I'm told they sell it at Home depo now ...I've been using it for years and it really works but I wouldnt substitute it for rust mort or any thing else ...Keep in mind ,your not converting the rust your removing it....

John long 01-08-2013 08:14 AM

Mike (DeadBodyMan) is correct of course. None of the above suggestions will make a permenant repair. If you don't get rid of the rust, it is like cancer and will continue to grow and destroy any repair you make.

John L


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