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Old 05-06-2014, 08:56 AM
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how to identify age and size of engine


Bought a 29 Ford Phaeton street rod in April. Now I need to know how to identify the age of the motor and transmission in order to buy the proper repair parts. Where on the engine and auto transmission would I look to find the part numbers??? I was told that the engine is a Ford 302 and the auto trans is a C-4 but the parts guys always ask what the year is. Can you help???

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Old 05-06-2014, 09:08 AM
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http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...tify_a_Ford_V8
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...specifications
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._transmissions
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:23 AM
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Dam', but I really dislike parts counter 'dummies' that can't go beyond what the computer says.................. I do my homework then go in and tell them what I need by year or part number. The guys at the local NAPA are used to me

But with that said, Ford though the '80s did some 'interesting' things, but internally, very few differences. Externally - timing housings, water pumps and brackets are about the biggest headaches. The C4 - 5 or 6 bolt bell housings, big vs small bell housings (157 tooth or 164 tooth flex plates), 28 in oz or 50 in oz balance, 10.5" or 11.5" torque converters plus input shaft spline counts, pan fill or case fill, screw in or press in vacuum modulator. And if it's been rebuilt - most everything inside interchanges. And that tranny, it takes Type F or FA fluid, not Dextron and not Mercon (unless a rebuilder has specified those potential alternates).
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Irelands child View Post
Dam', but I really dislike parts counter 'dummies' that can't go beyond what the computer says.................. I do my homework then go in and tell them what I need by year or part number. The guys at the local NAPA are used to me

But with that said, Ford though the '80s did some 'interesting' things, but internally, very few differences. Externally - timing housings, water pumps and brackets are about the biggest headaches. The C4 - 5 or 6 bolt bell housings, big vs small bell housings (157 tooth or 164 tooth flex plates), 28 in oz or 50 in oz balance, 10.5" or 11.5" torque converters plus input shaft spline counts, pan fill or case fill, screw in or press in vacuum modulator. And if it's been rebuilt - most everything inside interchanges. And that tranny, it takes Type F or FA fluid, not Dextron and not Mercon (unless a rebuilder has specified those potential alternates).
In defense of the "Counter dummies" they often MUST know this info to sell you the RIGHT part. If you worked at that counter for a few days you would be asking the same questions, why, because most customers don't know crap! So the more info you get the better the chance you are getting them the right part. You can't believe how many of those people who come in don't even know the year of the car (NOT joking). Or it could be very critical on a part they are looking for as to what year it is, one year difference, wham you have the wrong part, now who's the dummy? Or with a LOT of imports you need to know the brand of the ignition, or the cooling fan, there are different brands that won't interchange.

There are seriously odd things like a fuel filter being different if it has ABS or not, TRUE STORY.

If you worked one of those counters for a day you would have a COMPLETELY different picture of those questions believe me, I do because I did.

Have guys coming back pissed at you () because you gave them the wrong part that you now have to return out and give them a refund and find the right part and bill them.....all because the wrong info was given to you!

The guy buys an old hot rod Model A and he's told it's a 302 from a 69 Mustang (another ) and it's really a '78 smog motor with a 2 barrel.

Just tell the guy what he asks you and you are always going to be better off.

"Ford though the '80s did some 'interesting' things, but internally, very few differences."

Work at one of these counters for a YEAR and you will sell so few internal parts you will remember them by name. Tune-up parts, belts and hoses, oil, and brake shoes and pads will fill about 80-90% of your time.

Brian

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Old 05-06-2014, 12:01 PM
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Oh and by the way Pete, WELCOME! If you post your question in the engine forum you may get other answers to get you where you need to be.

Brian
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:43 PM
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Brian - defend the counter 'computer jock dummies' all you want, but for a hot rod, you had dam' well better know what you want because those transplanted engines are seldom like they were when they came off the assembly line in a vehicle. I really get tired of Advance, Auto Zone or similar Sunday afternoon parts refuges playing the computer game 'give me a year and maybe we'll figure out what you need' (the 'puter may, that is). If you recall, we went through a thread about counter folks 3-4 years ago - and the between the lines conclusion .... you had better know what you want. The 302/5.0 engine in my '31 is a good example. It was originally a complete 1999 crate assembly. Today, as far as the block and rotating/recip., it's still mostly the same elements. Beyond that, I need my handy chart of what I used. Now, my '11 diesel truck or '12 car, I'll agree to agree with you.

Dave W
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child View Post
Brian - defend the counter 'computer jock dummies' all you want, but for a hot rod, you had dam' well better know what you want because those transplanted engines are seldom like they were when they came off the assembly line in a vehicle. I really get tired of Advance, Auto Zone or similar Sunday afternoon parts refuges playing the computer game 'give me a year and maybe we'll figure out what you need' (the 'puter may, that is). If you recall, we went through a thread about counter folks 3-4 years ago - and the between the lines conclusion .... you had better know what you want. The 302/5.0 engine in my '31 is a good example. It was originally a complete 1999 crate assembly. Today, as far as the block and rotating/recip., it's still mostly the same elements. Beyond that, I need my handy chart of what I used. Now, my '11 diesel truck or '12 car, I'll agree to agree with you.

Dave W
I'm sorry Dave, I guess I am the one off base because I totally agree with what you have said. And as far as the "McParts" stores, I drive past them unless it's a quick trip over to get some oil or an air freshener off one of the shelves in the retail lobby. I NEVER EVER, EVER go there for real parts. Now, I am extremely lucky to have a couple of REAL parts stores in town (I pass two on the way to work) so I don't have to go to the McParts stores.

And YES you need to know what you have. And nothing screws things up more than giving the guy too much confusing info. "I want a distributor cap for a 1970 Mustang 302" not "I want a distributor cap for a small block Ford in a 29 Model A".

Brian
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