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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 06:30 AM
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Yeah, for a cult leader Barry's a heck of a guy.Last sunday I called (and the sunday before that ) and had a few questions about his clear he saved me from screwing up again (always use the reducer with the Euro clear)...Its so nice to have someone to call just to be sure ...Josh,even us pro's screw things up ,NOW,arent you glad you followed the boards advice and used SPI??? When this cars is done and over with you'll not only be proud of it you'll be proud that you used SPI also ...Were ALL greatfull to have Barry in our lives....and SPI on our cars...But can you imagine how sweet his wife must be to put up with all the phone cals and interupted conversations?she must be a saint..We (spi users)should get together and do something nice for her to show our appreciation ... mabee get her a cell phone jammer or something

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 06:36 AM
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Thank you guys, no big deal on this end as, I love the tech line and the thing that makes me feel best out of 67 tech calls I had Saturday and Sunday was three people including Josh completed their first ever paint job with success, to me it don't get no better then that.

Self serving, I learn as much from these calls as the people calling, so I know what is going on out there before sometimes the company selling the stuff and this is one reason I won't let, John, Andy or James share the tech line calls that they have offered to do many times.
Thanks again.
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Yeah, for a cult leader Barry's a heck of a guy.Last sunday I called (and the sunday before that ) and had a few questions about his clear he saved me from screwing up again (always use the reducer with the Euro clear)...Its so nice to have someone to call just to be sure ...Josh,even us pro's screw things up ,NOW,arent you glad you followed the boards advice and used SPI??? When this cars is done and over with you'll not only be proud of it you'll be proud that you used SPI also ...Were ALL greatfull to have Barry in our lives....and SPI on our cars...But can you imagine how sweet his wife must be to put up with all the phone cals and interupted conversations?she must be a saint..We (spi users)should get together and do something nice for her to show our appreciation ... mabee get her a cell phone jammer or something
LOL...how about a weekend vacation in Canada....we have so many wide open spaces that don't get cell phone service...like in front of my house...not for a vacation spot...just bad cell phone service...LOL

Ray
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:40 AM
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LOL...how about a weekend vacation in Canada....we have so many wide open spaces that don't get cell phone service...like in front of my house...not for a vacation spot...just bad cell phone service...LOL

Ray
Watch out Barry. If you vacation in front of Ray's house because he has no cell phone service, I guarentee he will be painting a car when you get there.

John
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 09:58 AM
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LOL Beige John, I'm going to paint Barry's car Beige....LOL

Ray
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 09:55 PM
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We're not out of the woods yet folks, so don't start dancing too hard yet. I still have to stripe and clear this thing. I touched up the roof and trunk tonight. I laid it out beautiful on one half of the roof, a little dryer on the other half of the roof. So one half looked shiny, the other half looked dull. And then on the dull side, I sprayed over a few stripes. It fixed them, so then there's a shinier spot in a duller area. When cleared does this all look the same? The biggest thing that's killing me is I don't know what I can and can't get away with. I am afraid to just keep piling more on the roof and building up mils and then it spiderwebs in the future. Otherwise I would have laid a medium wet coat over the dry half and called it a day. I have some pics below.

I did a medium coat on the trunk lid and did several drop coats to take care of some hints of stripes I could still see. The drop coat makes dry splotches (not from uneven metallic, just uneven distribution of the wetness applied). See third picture...issue?

And sometimes when I overlap an adjacent panel there's a wetter spot on it now. You can see in the fourth pic the wetter spot from where I was coming off the trunk, on top of the quarter. Will this all look uniform once under clear?

I went around the car with a bright halogen light tonight which really made all the lighter spots jump out. Some I had no idea existed so was able to add more material. I will push it out into the sun to do a walk around before I clear, to make sure it looks ok in the sun.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 11:39 PM
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Drying time
Allow ample drying time after applying the topcoat of paint to reveal any rough patches. You don't want to rush the process of color sanding. Drying time will vary depending on the paint, but it is recommended to let it dry for 12-24 hours before starting to sand. Letting it sit overnight can be helpful to ensure complete dryness.

Wet Sanding
Color sanding can be done wet or dry. Wet sanding keeps the surface cleaner and lubricates the sand paper and the sanding area. You can add a drop of dish detergent to keep the paper's abrasives from clogging. Use sandpaper with a fine 600 to 1,500 grit.

Sanding Evenly
Multiple coats of paint can leave a textured surface. A rubber sanding pad is good for curved surfaces because it's flexible and can ensure even sanding. A sanding block is recommended for flat surfaces. Once you have sanded an area, wipe it with a clean, dry towel to to check for high spots. Making sure you have sanded evenly will make a big difference on the finished look. Check your progress often by repeating the sanding and drying process as you go.

Hand or Machine
Some professionals sand by hand, while others use an orbital sander. The machines are faster, but if you are new to sanding, doing it by hand will allow you to feel any grit that comes between the paint and the paper, thus giving you more control. Although fine scratches are unavoidable when sanding a car, linear strokes are recommended to make marks less noticeable.

Hope it will help

Anthony Cole
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
We're not out of the woods yet folks, so don't start dancing too hard yet. I still have to stripe and clear this thing. I touched up the roof and trunk tonight. I laid it out beautiful on one half of the roof, a little dryer on the other half of the roof. So one half looked shiny, the other half looked dull. And then on the dull side, I sprayed over a few stripes. It fixed them, so then there's a shinier spot in a duller area. When cleared does this all look the same? The biggest thing that's killing me is I don't know what I can and can't get away with. I am afraid to just keep piling more on the roof and building up mils and then it spiderwebs in the future. Otherwise I would have laid a medium wet coat over the dry half and called it a day. I have some pics below.

I did a medium coat on the trunk lid and did several drop coats to take care of some hints of stripes I could still see. The drop coat makes dry splotches (not from uneven metallic, just uneven distribution of the wetness applied). See third picture...issue?

And sometimes when I overlap an adjacent panel there's a wetter spot on it now. You can see in the fourth pic the wetter spot from where I was coming off the trunk, on top of the quarter. Will this all look uniform once under clear?

I went around the car with a bright halogen light tonight which really made all the lighter spots jump out. Some I had no idea existed so was able to add more material. I will push it out into the sun to do a walk around before I clear, to make sure it looks ok in the sun.
Several things Josh...do you have any inter coat clear? The reason I ask is that all the time your doing this may give you a problem with clearing. Most base coats need to be cleared with in 24 hours of applying....I'm not sure about Pro Spray but PPG, Dupont, Nexa they all recommend clearing within a 24 hour window.

Now, if you had some inter coat clear, that would reopen that window again and....while it's wet, it would give you an indication as to what the car is going to look like cleared. It's hard to tell by the pictures if the spots that your concerned with are going to show after you clear it....I wish you where closer...I have a gallon of DBC 500 inter coat clear that I'd give you...I can't use it anymore.

Another trick...thing I've done and it has helped somewhat is to take a piece of saran wrap, lay it out over the problem areas stretch it out and press it down ...see what it looks like. The saran wrap acts like a layer of clear...it doesn't cut an polish very well though....LOL

Ray
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 05:36 AM
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Ray[/QUOTE]
Another trick...thing I've done and it has helped somewhat is to take a piece of saran wrap, lay it out over the problem areas stretch it out and press it down ...see what it looks like. The saran wrap acts like a layer of clear...it doesn't cut an polish very well though....LOL

Ray[/QUOTE]

Damn Ray, I never knew that!!! I will be dangerous now that I do know!
Your a guineas!
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:48 AM
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Ray
Another trick...thing I've done and it has helped somewhat is to take a piece of saran wrap, lay it out over the problem areas stretch it out and press it down ...see what it looks like. The saran wrap acts like a layer of clear...it doesn't cut an polish very well though....LOL

Ray[/QUOTE]

Damn Ray, I never knew that!!! I will be dangerous now that I do know!
Your a guineas![/QUOTE]

LOL...I don't know about that Barry...it's just that when you run into a bad color, it's 4 AM, I'm tinting, I'm on my 10th spray out card hoping this is the one that's close enough to blend and I have just enough clear left to lay 2 coats on the side of Chevy 1/2 ton. All I can say is that the two sandwiches I had wrapped in saran wrap got me through to my 15th spray out card and a color that I could use.

The gun spit out the last drop of clear as I finished the truck....(I see a reality show here...LOL)...It's not the do all end all but, it should help in at least giving Josh an indication as to how the areas that he's concerned about could look after a coat of clear.

Ray
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2013, 11:59 PM
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After a 12.5 hr marathon day I got the stripes measured out, masked off and painted. I taped off with fineline tape, then overlayed this with 1.5 inch 3M yellow, running 18 inch masking paper immediately along the stripes and then plastic beyond this to cover the rest of the car.

The lines are very crisp, but I had a lot of masking breaches. I have no idea how this stuff got through the tape like it did, but it's there. I have some pictures below. The question is what is the best way to remedy these? Will they partially sand out or is it melted in to the base. I figure either way I'll have to shoot blue over it, which isn't something I was hoping to have to do ever again.

Lot of white dust on the car underneath the plastic too, almost like the overspray just melted straight through the plastic and manifested on the car as dust.

This is SPI white base, btw.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:37 AM
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I do the stripes first ...You may want to scuff,tack and base the blue anyway ,its been on there a while..Your almost there...
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:02 AM
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Josh, they will need to be lightly scuffed, if there is a hard line as shown in pictures 2, 3 and 4...that line needs to be removed. Tack off as much as possible, scuff and blend the base over top. Being that it's a low hiding color it's going to be a pain in the butt.

Just for the future, if and when possible, I try and apply the paint for stripes first, mask off the stripes and then shoot the main color. You use a lot less main color base and you it helps to see the stripes visually before the main color is sprayed. Also, this way, you don't need to mask ff the whole car for the stripes.

Breaches in masking can be a nasty problem...the type of masking tape is crucial for these types of paint schemes. I've never been a fan of 3M yellow tape other than the fact that it does go around corners easier than the 3M green, but I find that the 3M yellow isn't as resistant to the solvents in base coats and the edges can curl and lift...but either American Tape or 3M green tape could have saved you a bit of time in this case....I'm not saying that this is all tape failure...no offence Josh but, there is the human element as well...just saying that 3M green tape, in my experience is much more forgiving and has qualities that are better suited for this type of work than the Yellow.

Detailed masking is often overlooked and thought of as "just cover up what you don't want painted"...wrong, there are tricks and techniques just like painting or prepping. I learned the hard way on the first two tone I did paint job I did. I painted my center color first...all good...masked off the center color and painted the body. What I didn't do was mask of each individual door gap. The over spray went into the gap, under the paper and I had a similar problem to the one you have now...masking can be a real talent and the sometimes you need to think like paint...(where would I go if I was paint...LOL). There isn't one painter out there that hasn't experienced this Josh...fortunately for you, this isn't that serious...I've seen hundred's of dollars worth of stencils ruined along with the paint because edges failed or tape lifted.

Ray
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:54 PM
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Josh, they will need to be lightly scuffed, if there is a hard line as shown in pictures 2, 3 and 4...that line needs to be removed. Tack off as much as possible, scuff and blend the base over top. Being that it's a low hiding color it's going to be a pain in the butt.

Just for the future, if and when possible, I try and apply the paint for stripes first, mask off the stripes and then shoot the main color. You use a lot less main color base and you it helps to see the stripes visually before the main color is sprayed. Also, this way, you don't need to mask ff the whole car for the stripes.

Breaches in masking can be a nasty problem...the type of masking tape is crucial for these types of paint schemes. I've never been a fan of 3M yellow tape other than the fact that it does go around corners easier than the 3M green, but I find that the 3M yellow isn't as resistant to the solvents in base coats and the edges can curl and lift...but either American Tape or 3M green tape could have saved you a bit of time in this case....I'm not saying that this is all tape failure...no offence Josh but, there is the human element as well...just saying that 3M green tape, in my experience is much more forgiving and has qualities that are better suited for this type of work than the Yellow.

Detailed masking is often overlooked and thought of as "just cover up what you don't want painted"...wrong, there are tricks and techniques just like painting or prepping. I learned the hard way on the first two tone I did paint job I did. I painted my center color first...all good...masked off the center color and painted the body. What I didn't do was mask of each individual door gap. The over spray went into the gap, under the paper and I had a similar problem to the one you have now...masking can be a real talent and the sometimes you need to think like paint...(where would I go if I was paint...LOL). There isn't one painter out there that hasn't experienced this Josh...fortunately for you, this isn't that serious...I've seen hundred's of dollars worth of stencils ruined along with the paint because edges failed or tape lifted.

Ray
Regarding preferred tape, it's a lot like the say..what is it...ah yes, buttholes.

I started off using 3M green, was going to make the switch to American Tape, my jobber, also an SPI jobber so I figured he had to have a good head on his shoulders, didn't carry AT but recommended I try the 3M yellow, and I saw a lot of positive comments here about it to. So I ended up going with the 3M yellow. The green was a sticky SOB and really difficult to tear. With that being said, you mention the human element and I'll venture to say that's far more to blame than the tape. Needless to say the next project I will go with the American Tape.

Now why did I not spray the white down first...you had mentioned that to me some time ago, but there were several reasons I decided it wasn't the best option for me:
  1. I knew the blue covered poorly and feared it would take a lot of effort to cover the white
  2. I was afraid of not getting white in all the correct spots
  3. I would have to have the white masked up, which didn't leave me much time to get the base done, and I didn't want the tape to set too long on the white and risk pulling up the paint when I took it off. And I knew the base prob wouldn't go as well as it would in my mind.

So looks like now I get to get out the blue base once again and the sandpaper. I haven't changed the gun settings since I initially sprayed the blue, so now it's set up real nice every time I need to use it, as long as I have the air the same. Works a lot better now.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:19 PM
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All understandable Josh and i also realize that you had sprayed the blue before, you knew that it wasn't a great hider...that would also mean that you would have had a large ridge between the blue and the white stripes to cover with clear before you cut and buff...this way the ridge won't be that big and several coats of clear will get it polishable with less effort than if you would have shot the white first..

As far as the tape goes, it is a matter of preference...I've had others say that the green doesn't tare as easily and I know it doesn't corner as well...but, as you said...it does stick....and more so than the yellow. AT is a great product...and I'm glad josh...that you said next time...Your doing great and I know your going to be proud...the body work shows your attention to detail, there isn't any reason in my mind that final finish won't be kick'n butt as well

Ray
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:21 PM
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It is looking good there Josh, and I do feel for you having to go at it again with the blue base. I will offer up a little advice for the next time you do a two tone or another stripe job. It is a little time consuming but if you run into a problem like you have, it is a real easy fix. After you had all your blue base down to your satisfaction, go ahead and clear the whole car with 2 good coats. Wet sand the whole thing with 600 grit, staying away from edges, because it cuts really fast. Now you go ahead and mask off your stripes, at your leisure because your going over cured clear. Usually wait 2-3 days anyway before masking off. Now spray out your color for the stripes. Unmask after that color looks good, and now just reclear the whole thing again with 4-5 coats of clear. Now if you unmask and run into the problem like you have, all you would have to do is simply wipe off that excess overspray with a little reducer on a wipe. The previous clear would be protecting the blue from wiping right off.
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