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Old 09-21-2013, 02:40 PM
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How long to wait after wet sanding spots in base

I basing my Mustang (67) today, it's not a job I'm proud of, but then again I think I am getting entirely way too anal. I also got several runs in the first panels I started on (fender and front valance) and had to wet sand them out with 600. This base is ProSpray, blue metallic (GTS Viper blue). Now that I've wet sanded them with 600, how long should I allow to dry before shooting more base? Is this a one hr deal, overnight?

Also, I get a ton of overspray dust on the car (even though I have an exhaust system on my room...it may be inadequate). My tack rags from the paint and body supply seem to be worthless. Is it necessary to remove every trace of this overspray dust, which I have been trying to do, or should I be more lax?

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Old 09-21-2013, 03:03 PM
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An hour later should be more than enough time to reshoot that pro spray base coat over your sanded panels. And yes you should make sure you tack off all that over spray before you recoat any base or especially clear. Make sure you invest in some good tack rags,. and no you are not being too anal as this is what you should be doing. The tops of the panels (roof) are where most of that overspray will end up on, but again make sure that it is totally gone before you recoat. I usually wipe down with a tack cloth 3 or 4 times before I put down another coat.
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:05 PM
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Thanks...now only if I wasn't running out of tack rags on a Saturday afternoon at 5 pm. Didn't buy NEARLY enough.
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:39 PM
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X2 on what Dennis said (mr.4speed) also Josh, if you have that much overspray, maybe you need to either slow down your reducer so that the any overspray can melt in or your spraying to far away from the panel...I feel that it's more than likely to fast a reducer...otherwise you wouldn't get runs in your base if you sprayed it to far away from the panel. Just to let you know, one tack rag should be good for the entire paint job...some guys even use 1 tack rag over several jobs.

The base should feel like satin when your done...no rough edges or drag when you tack it off...if your getting drag or the tack rag seems to be hanging up on the base...it's gone on to dry.

Hope this helps

Ray
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:31 PM
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Also good to know Ray. That part I didn't want to admit to anybody is I use a single tack rag for a looong time

But the tack rags I bought from the autobody supply are small (about the size of a kleenex) and not very tacky at all. Just the regular ones I've bought at walmart or wherever and used in the past were very large and tackier. I finally had to resort to getting one of those out that I hadn't opened yet and it worked a lot better.

I am using SPI's SLOW reducer for this. And let's be real here, my gun to panel distance is probably all over the place, try as I might to keep it as consistent as possible.

The base is very smooth when it's flashed off and dried. I'm not getting any dry spray on the base.
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:51 PM
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Okay Josh...Yes, the tack rags we seem to be able to get in Canada now are those that aren't very tacky anymore...because of the waterborne basecoat, they have reduced the amount of tackiness...I was fortunate...I bought a couple of cases of the "Unirag" from Royal...those are the big fluffy ones that last a long time. Apparently we can still get these but it's becoming difficult. Now that only 2 or 3 paint jobs a year...I might be set for life when it comes to tack rags...LOL

Slow reducer is great and thank you for being honest about the consistency of the distance away from the panel...I really appreciate that....and I'm sure, if your using SPI's slow reducer, the overspray is from the inconsistency of distance...(also explains a run here and there).

When you go to clear, really focus on that consistency...that's when it really comes into play. If your concerned, try a test panel (masking paper on the wall) for clear...This would be a good place to try moving faster with more overlap...that way your still getting the atomization and the benefit of volume by more overlap. I've always said every painter paints differently, so perhaps try this...if it works, great, if not, well that's why you tried it.

Hope this helps Josh

Ray
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Old 09-21-2013, 05:41 PM
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Ray, today has been such a cluster **** with things going wrong here or there and apparently I seem extremely intent on just making more things wrong as I continue to mess things up.

--I ran a tack rag down my hood scoop before it was completely set up and I don't need to tell you how that story ends...there was a section that wasn't completely flashed off. Fortunately the damage wasn't too bad, just gently hit it with wet 600 and then did the 2nd coat of base and you can't see it.

--the same hood scoop, I had set on the masking paper stretching across the trunk opening (scoop isn't mounted to the hood). Well then I get sidetracked, and have to walk into the house for a second. Come back into the booth to find the scoop broke the masking paper loose in the trunk, and the fiberglass scoop was laying on the floor beneath the car, upside down of course on the fresh painted side. (the gas tank is not installed yet so there's hole for it in the trunk). Fortunately it WAS dry by this point, and no corners chipped on the scoop, but my pants didn't know that before they soiled themselves.

--I started spraying just a little before noon today. I've had so many mishaps I haven't even got the second coat on yet. Had to sand this here, touch that up there, break this here, etc.

--I also tiger striped all the horizontal panels real well, and seems all the overlap in the world wasn't fixing it. I have no idea where this tiger striping came from, because when I painted the undersides of the hood and trunk they came out beautifully, but I was really hosing it on too. I hope I can remedy this in subsequent coats.

--my gun seems to want to keep spraying heavier at the bottom end of the pattern, and I can't get the pressure or volume adjusted to get it even all the way across. I'm sure this is prob what's contributing to my striping, but I'm not sure why I'm experiencing so many issues with my technique today that I never have in the past.

--and so since I've been such a bumble **** all over today, my hand literally shakes from nerves as I'm spraying, and my gun is shaking all over hell, which doesn't help either.

--If you think you see the Northern Lights tonight, it's just a Mustang burning in a field in MI. The fresh paint should make for some pretty flame colors!
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Old 09-21-2013, 05:46 PM
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and I'm sure it doesn't help that I'm expecting more perfection than probably even what you guys do in your jobs. I'm literally making it a 2" car, when I should be shooting for a 10' car, or even a 20' car.
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:32 PM
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Here's the cure...take a deep breathe...and have a beer, watch 10 minutes of California Housewives and you'll be happy to go back to the car...a bad day painting is better than 10 minutes of the Housewives show.

Okay, tiger stripping and heavy on the bottom of the pattern...one and the same problem...cause, usually, a part of your gun is dirty...turn your air cap 180 degrees...if it's heavier of the top now...the air cap is dirty, make sure that all the holes are clean...it only takes one plugged to give you stripes or a heavier pattern on either end of the pattern. If you turn the cap 180 degrees and the it's still heavier on the bottom of the pattern...take out your fluid needle and your fluid tip...look for crap on the needle (usually isn't a needle problem) check your fluid tip for crap...again Josh...it only takes a little bit.

Josh, stuff happens, slow it down, it's nothing that can't be fixed...clean up your gun...get the pattern proper...that's causing your biggest head ache now and because your wanting perfection...your making mistakes.

Let me know how the pattern information goes...it's all good, every painter has had days.

Ray
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:40 PM
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Ray I think my gun was clean, but I kept going to that...checking it to see if something wasn't plugged. And when I broke it down today it did look fine. I also had done your trick early on with turning the air cap 180 today when I was setting my spray pattern.

I've called it a day and just quit. I will walk out tomorrow and see how it all looks when the smoke clears. When I have to sand the base, the blue pigment sands out and then it's bright white, and it's REALLY hard to cover that...this base covers very poorly.

I think I am putting it on WAY to wet. This happens after it's looking like it's going on too dry of course when I walk out 30 min later the 'too dry' stuff now looks perfect and smooth' and the 'too wet' stuff looks thick and pillowy. I don't know what I will do to get around that.

So I'm going through the base so fast, and in my head all I hear is cash register dings. You called it, I make mistakes based off irrational things. I have a little over a quart (unmixed) left and haven't even got two coats on the entire car. I started out this morning with ~2/3 gallon and 1 quart (all unmixed). I swear more of it is going off into the air than actually on the car.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:02 PM
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Its all part of painting, fun is'nt it !!?? The things that can go wrong while your spraying a full on paintjob, let's see, its a grocery list long if your doing everything by the book. I am in the process of spraying a cowl hood right now and it is very similar to the color of your mustang, an electric blue. The base coat is lesonal, and I am getting a little mottleing with this too. Well time to go put down another coat. Oh bye the way Josh, it gets a little easier after shooting about 15-20 cars.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:15 PM
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Very true Dennis ...then when you think you've got it down pat...it starts all over a gain....LOL

Josh, If your gun is clean...then you have a gun issue...something may be bent, needle, a slight tweek on the air cap...something starting to wear...Check the housekeeping on the gun again...and if it's causing the stripping (and who knows what other issues) don't put more paint on until you figure out the problem...it won't go away and suddenly spray better (unless it releases a big chunk of something that was dried up inside...that usually doesn't happen until the last coat of clear on the center of the hood)...paint is to expensive...fix the spraying issue first.

If your getting more paint in the air, dial in a smaller pattern...that'll tighten things up and less overspray.

Ray
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:33 AM
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the over spray problem could very well be too much air pressure,you dont need a lot when spraying base....Too much pressure will also amplifiy the heavy spray pattern at the bottom ...in most cases when the pattern is heavy on top or bottom and the gun is clean,its because the pin or needle is slightly bent...You can check it by pulling it out and rolling it across a flat surface like a table top and look closly at the point if the point wobbles even slightly its bent...Your gun is your first problem...I believe too much air pressure is your second problem....
when you get these problems solved tiger strips give many pros trouble just remember clear wont make them go away if you even think theres strips there are stripes and the clear will show them up SO......the cure for strpes is simple even if they are already there and very noticable....the only way to fix the stripes is to change the direction of application ,insted of going from front to back go side to side then corner to corner making an X pattern then go from oppisite corners....BUT lighten up on the paint a little,(move faster) base should dry before you get to the other end of the panel and it shouldn't shine like SS paint,,everybody seems to make this mistake when first starting out with base..
watch some vidios of someone applying base and see how fast they move...when it comes time for the clear THATS when you slow down and lay it on nice and wet....
The X ing is very important when applying the base but it wont help much until you get the gun problem fixed...if all else fails go to HF and get one of those 20.00 guns that everyone like so much and see if that helps or find someone that has a good one you can borrow....
This is what always happens when someone trys BC/CC for the first few times.....Dont sweat it...but you'll need two more qts of paint,,,Think of whats on there now a good coat of sealer and start over...You picked one of the hardest colors there is for a first time it gives everyone some trouble..
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:45 AM
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Thanks DBM. Yes, this color is very difficult, and I'm not making it any better by doing lemans stripes either. I've added some pictures of the first panels I did with this color...they came out beautifully. These are from jambing. I had no striping issues at all with the undersides of the trunk and hood.

I'll post my problems in the next post.

I will take the pressure down, though I'm running it at what I was when I did these panels. I was keeping the pressure around 30 psi to control mottling. I'm spraying with a 1.3 tip, if I didn't say that before.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:55 AM
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The first pic here shows the striping on the hood. As you can see I used a lot of overlap. I need to check my needle. I can't say how frustrating and disheartening it is to spray the same panels underneath (where it is 3 dimension and much more difficult) and pull it off perfectly, and botch it up so badly on the easy, flat smooth side! I take extremely good care of this gun though; I always do a thorough cleaning.

One of the pic shows a rash of fish eyes I got in one spot. Am I just going to have to sand these flat with 600 wet? One of the problems if I have to do extensive sanding is the pigment sands out and the base is bright white and it absolutely WILL not cover this without a million coats.

The other pics are more concerning to me....all over the car I see what look like 'water spots,' kind of when you see a hard water spot on a glass. Almost like rings in the paint where it's delaminating around the edge. I don't know for sure if that's what's actually happening though. I don't know what's causing this; have never experienced it before. I cleaned with wax and grease remover the night before spraying so it had plenty of time to flash off. These spots are all over the car. They will persist through two coats.

When I go out and look this morning, it doesn't look *too* bad, and I have no mottling. I am getting a lot of trash but that is the least of my worries. But it's things like these spots that really concern me. Enough that I don't want to lay anymore until I get some professional opinions.

Also, I'm still getting a lot of sand scratches coming through. Before painting the car, I sealed the entire thing with epoxy and then wet sanded with 600. I'm fine with this being a 10 foot car at this point since I picked such a difficult color, but now i just need to figure out how to survive and weather this paint job.
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Last edited by Lizer; 09-22-2013 at 08:04 AM.
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