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  #181 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2013, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
Shine, who's a veteran pro on this forum (but doesn't post here much anymore) does high-end Corvettes. He likes Car Wash, Wax, Polishes, Microfiber Towels and Best Auto Detail Supplies - Chemical Guys Professional Car Care Products - Wholesale and Retail and only uses them, has for the last 20 years. Says they have a much better price point than 3M.
LOL. Everyone has a better price point than 3M. I am 100% sure Shine is correct about the quality of the Chemical Guys products. The neat thing about the 3M kit is it is so user friendly for a new person. Everything is color coded, comes in one package, and is top quality professional grade.......

If I did this day in and day out, I would be looking for something cheaper than the 3M too. As a matter of fact, when I did the doors on the roadster this spring I bought a pint of McQuires swirl remover because I refused to buy a whole quart of the 3M.

With all that said, the OP is trying to reach a quality finish with the least confusion possible and I think Ray's advice is right on. The 3m kit is going to get him where he wants to go following an orderly, understandable path.

John

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  #182 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2013, 02:47 PM
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Thank you again John, you very eloquently worded my intentions. In cases such as this, it always sounds better coming from someone else.

I might do 2 to 4 cars a year and 4 is pushing it, if I spend $200 on polishing product during that year to get the finish I want, that's a small price to pay when you consider the cost of color is reaching $200 to $300 a quart and more, (if you want a quality, non economy solvent Base Coat, water born here in Canada is the only way we can get a quality Base Coat).

I know the 3M product works well...I've been doing this a long time and I still like the color coordinating for pad and polish. Sometimes I still screw up and put the Machine Polish on the coarse pad, but I can catch myself a lot easier than if they weren't color coordinated.

I have no doubt that what Shine has suggested works and works well but, to save $25 a car...maybe...I'll keep using what I'm using.

No offense intended to Shine or anyone else and I always appreciate the input.

Ray
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 07:30 PM
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I haven't done any close price comparison on them, so I don't know how much better the price point is. Chemical Guys has a LOT of products on their page and it is overwhelming to try to figure out exactly what you want, unless you're a skilled veteran who's been doing it a long time. I completely agree that the 3M kit would be more user-friendly especially for the novice. I still haven't ruled it out for myself yet.
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 07:45 PM
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Have used the 3M kit myself for quite a while. There is the compound #06085 that works excellent, I start with a wool pad then finish with the foam and honestly unless it is a really dark color I am done after the compounding and a quick hand glaze. I don't even bother with the step 2 or 3, because it really is not going to get much better after I am finished with the compounding. Have often thought of trying the norton blue ice system, but never went and bought any of that. After all how much better can it be.
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  #185 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 07:47 PM
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Josh, as much as I don't like 3M I have used the perfect-it compounds and they are very good even though I was not using the recomended pads. I would love to try the compounds along with the correct pads and see how much better it is.

Still. It is pricey.

John
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  #186 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr4speed View Post
Have used the 3M kit myself for quite a while. There is the compound #06085 that works excellent, I start with a wool pad then finish with the foam and honestly unless it is a really dark color I am done after the compounding and a quick hand glaze. I don't even bother with the step 2 or 3, because it really is not going to get much better after I am finished with the compounding. Have often thought of trying the norton blue ice system, but never went and bought any of that. After all how much better can it be.
I like the Norton wet paper but have not been impressed with their compounds. I won a Norton kit at a show a few years ago that came with compound, polish, swirl remover, glaze, and wax. It also had 10 and 12 Micron half sheets of wet or dry paper along with wet Color sand D/A paper. I just never did get the results with it I hoped for. Most of the product is still in the basement.

One thing I have done with the "Champaign 800 grit D/A paper is fold it in half and use an aluminum block to level the orange peal when I cut and buff one. It is great for that.

John
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  #187 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 08:47 PM
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I have no doubts the Perfect-It is a very good product. I, like you, just don't like dropping the dough.

However, as a second use for it--I saw a guy polish the lens on his full-face respirator to bring it back to a nice clear after it had collected a bunch of overspray using one of the polishes from the Perfect-It. I had some extra headlight buffing pads and compounds left and those had worked pretty well too, to polish up the lens on my full face respirator.
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  #188 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
I have no doubts the Perfect-It is a very good product. I, like you, just don't like dropping the dough.

However, as a second use for it--I saw a guy polish the lens on his full-face respirator to bring it back to a nice clear after it had collected a bunch of overspray using one of the polishes from the Perfect-It. I had some extra headlight buffing pads and compounds left and those had worked pretty well too, to polish up the lens on my full face respirator.
You guys don't have to buy the entire system to give it a go. Like I have said the key to that system is that 06085 compound that is what brings it all back. I personally like starting with a wool pad, and not an expensive one either. Some prefer the foam, whichever you prefer all you really need is the compound and a pad of your choice , whether it is the reccomended foam or a wool. I am pretty thorough on the compounding, thats why I rarely use the other 2 steps for the polish. So for around $50 or so you can pickup a quart of the compound and a pad of your choice, not too bad of a price and it really does work.
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:16 PM
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What if we don't know what we prefer yet, or have never done it before?
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  #190 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:26 PM
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What if we don't know what we prefer yet, or have never done it before?
Well if you have never buffed before than I would have to say go with the foam for sure, much safer. Most guys do use the foam pads, I have always used wool and that is what I am used to. But I have buffed quite a few cars, so my advice would be to finish wet sanding with at least 2500 grit if not 3000. Be very thorough on the sanding to the next grit. And of course stay away from edges. Another thing I have to mention is don't have a radio blasting as your wet sanding, you will not be able to hear if you picked up a piece of dirt. That is the last thing you want to do, but it does happen. Try and keep everything as clean as you can. If you drop the paper on the floor then just throw it away, don't take any chances. Let the sandpaper do all the work and not the buffer, if you can finish off all your sanding to the finest grits then it should buff out really fast, especially if you use that 3M 06085 compound.

Last edited by mr4speed; 08-12-2013 at 09:37 PM.
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  #191 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:33 PM
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I buffed a fender I was working on in a class. It didn't matter if I messed it up, it was just a fender that was going to hang on my shop wall. We learned proper buffing technique, but that was several years ago. And not on something that really matters. Obviously I love my newly refinished car more than a late model Malibu fender. So I'm not completely naive to it, but still timid.
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  #192 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2013, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
I buffed a fender I was working on in a class. It didn't matter if I messed it up, it was just a fender that was going to hang on my shop wall. We learned proper buffing technique, but that was several years ago. And not on something that really matters. Obviously I love my newly refinished car more than a late model Malibu fender. So I'm not completely naive to it, but still timid.
No doubt that wet sanding and buffing is a skill that takes practice to master, just as block sanding does. The two key ingrediants are patience and being fussy. Don't rush it and ask plenty of questions.
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  #193 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2013, 02:34 AM
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I've read the comments here and there really isn't a right or wrong compound. There really isn't a right or wrong pad. It's all about what works for the individual.

I prefer 3M because it's a simple process that works. I prefer foam pads because they aren't has harsh on edges as wool but, to be honest with you, since I started painting cars with 3 or more coats of clear, after I've color sanded, I've never burnt through an edge with a wool pad.

Dennis is 100% correct, the key ingredients are patience and being fussy. For those that want to know if they are doing things patiently and being fussy enough, here's a test.

Take an area of the car that you just cleared, about a 1 foot square area, start cutting that area with 1,000 grit wet, remove all the Orange Peel, move up to 1,500 grit wet, the 2,000 wet and 2,500 wet. Now take some compound on micro fiber towel and hand polish...just rub it for 3 to 5 minutes. If that shine comes up without visible sand scratches...you've been patient enough and you are fussy.

That's how I learned as to to what it takes to color sand and polish a car without having a hazy finish or a finish with sand scratches. If you haven't taken the 1,000 grit scratches out with the 1,500 grit, your not going to get them out with 2,000 or 2,500 and those 1,000 grit scratches will show immediately when you try to hand polish. With aggressive compounding on a machine (and possibly a wool pad) you may get it to look good but, sometimes it can haze off or dull out later. By knowing what you and your product can do together and what it takes, you can make the shine last for a long time.

After you get it to where you want it, to restore that original just cut and buffed shine isn't that hard. Run over the vehicle with your finest compound and your car should have the original shine. If you have any fine scratches in your finish, trust me, after you have cut and buffed an entire car, you'll know what grit of paper you need to repair the scratch.

Ray
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  #194 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:42 AM
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just rub it for 3 to 5 minutes. If that shine comes up without visible sand scratches...you've been patient enough and you are fussy.



Ray
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