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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2013, 03:00 PM
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Sanding

Hi Ray,
After I apply my fillers, what grit of sand paper should I start with? And then what is the grit order?
Thanks as always?

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2013, 03:02 PM
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sanding part two..

Also, what am I using DA Sander, Straight , or Palm? Thanks!
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:44 PM
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After the filler is applied I start BLOCKING the filler using 80 grit on a long board. I use strips of 80 grit either 17 1/2 inch X 2 3/4 inch for clip on boards or 16 1/2 inch X 2 3/4 inch for boards that use a PSA (Pressure Sensitive Adhesive or sticky paper) backing. Some people use air boards, I personally don't, I feel I have more control if I use a long board that is hand operated. Another reason I prefer using a hand operated long board is the shear weight of the air board because the trick to getting a panel straight is to not apply pressure to the tool your using. By not applying pressure to the long board, the sandpaper does the work and the panel has no choice but to be straight. The other tool I most commonly use is the short block. If you take a 9 X 11 sheet of sand paper and fold it in half with wise and fold it in half again, you can get 4 pieces of sand paper from a single sheet of 9 X 11 sandpaper.

When your blocking filler never increase your grit size by more than 100 grit. So if you start by using 80, your next grit would be 180, many people feel that 180 grit is fine enough for primer and in most case it is. For the added insurance I step up to 240 grit and finish my body work in 320 grit. This, is for all intense and purposes over kill. The reason I finish my body work that fine is that I have virtually no chance of sand scratches coming through 6 months after the car is painted so it's just a bit of insurance I use, it takes just a few minutes more and in many cases it means I can get away with priming a panel with one prime session.

As you noticed, in my first paragraph, I put the word blocking in caps. The reason I did that was because when it comes to sanding filler I don't use any machine at all...I use blocks. You can use a DA, air board or palm sander but if you want the panel to be straight, eventually you will use a long board and a short block. This is my preference, air tools work, I prefer hand tools, I like to get my work straight from the beginning.

Another tip when your blocking filler is to cut your filler with your long board or short block at a 45 degree angle for about 10 strokes, then change to the opposite 45 degree angle for another 10 strokes. That way every 10 strokes your cutting the filler against the grain and it cuts faster. I also use guide coat on my filler, it quickly tells me where my highs spots and low spots are. When you reach bare metal it's time to evaluate if the area that the metal is showing is high or if the rest of the panel is low, run your hand across the panel, don't look at it, look away and let the feel of your hand tell you if it's high or low. If the the area with the metal showing is high, gently tap it down with a body hammer and apply filler and start blocking again. if the area where the metal is showing is where it should be, more filler needs to be applied and again, start blocking.

If you need more clarification, let me know and I'll try and explain further.

Ray
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:17 PM
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In the first paragraph of my last post I have a typing error...in the last sentence it should read...width wise, not with wise. Sorry about that.

Also, if you have extensive areas with filler, it's a good idea to "walk the panel", by that I mean don't concentrate on one small area, sand the panel by moving your board across the panel, then change angles on the way back. That way you are taking similar amounts of filler off the panel and have a much better chance of getting the panel straight. Remember that there is nothing wrong with filler, if it's mixed properly, applied properly and the depth of the filler is kept to a minimum. When you mix filler with hardner, fold the filler into itself, don't stir the hardner into the filler. If you stir hardner and filler to mix it you will end up with air pockets and when it hardens they turn into pin holes.

Ray
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:28 PM
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Thanks so much Ray, so appreciated!!
So being a novice painter, which kind of paint would you recommend-- a base coat/clear combo; or an acrylic enamel? Or something else? I am sure that I want the most forgiving
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:45 PM
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I'm only happy to help. First of all I would ask you if you have purchased your SPI Epoxy primer yet? And what color is your car going to be. I should have mentioned this earlier and I'm not sure if I did or not, but, when ever I prime anything I get the darkest primer I can...SPI makes a Dark Gray/Black Epoxy Primer and would recommend this in 90% of applications. The reason I choose a dark primer is that when I wet sand and I'm blocking, I get a better reflection in dark primer than I do in a light colored primer and I can more easily see where my high's and low's are in the body work. Your going to a lot of trouble and expense, the car may as well be as straight as it can be.

If the car is blue (like in your picture), I would recommend a base coat from a major paint manufacturer such as Dupont or PPG. If your going to use Dupont, I would recommend Chroma Premiere, (Chroma Base doesn't have the metallic control or coverage that Chroma Premiere has, Chroma Premiere may be a bit more money but if your going to use Dupont, in my opinion it's well worth the extra cost) if your planning on using PPG, either Global or Deltron, (Deltron is less expensive than Global, has excellent metallic control and great coverage), Global is an excellent paint...just a bit more pricey than Deltron.

Another reason I asked if you had purchased your SPI primer yet is that they make several excellent clear coats, their Universal Clear would do a great job for your car, it polishes well and has a great price point.

I hope this helps, any more questions, feel free to ask.

Ray
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:24 PM
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I was recommended to use acrylic enamel paint..is easier and safer, lower voc , then other 2 part systems? What do you think?
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:40 PM
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A simple answer...NO...Acrylic Enamel is old technology, dating back to the late 60's and early 70's. I don't know who told you this but ask how it's safer? I'd like to know that one. Base clear is not nearly as difficult to apply and I'll explain why. When you apply base coat, as you paint the car the paint lays down very flat and thin, it dries extremely fast and if you have any imperfections like dirt or perhaps a run, let it dry, sand out the imperfection and apply more base over that area only, when the car has the base coat on or color coat and the car is completely covered and dry, you apply the clear coat. Two, three, or as many coats as you like. If you get any imperfections in the clear coat, like runs or dirt, you can polish them out. With acrylic enamel, if the color you chose had metallic's in the paint, what you see is what you get, there is no polishing or you will cut the tops of the metallic's and the color will be dead in that spot...with base clear, when you cut and buff it, it only gets better.

Acrylic Enamel, the only way it would have lower VOC's is because you might put on 3 or 4 coats of paint compared to say 3 coats of base coat (an average for coverage) and 2 to 3 coats of clear (most body shops apply 2 coats of clear, I apply 4 on show cars).

So again...NO...Acrylic Enamel is not easier, if anything, it's harder, it's not forgiving, as I said, with Acrylic Enamel what you see when you paint the car is what you see until the next time you paint the car.

I hope this explains why Acrylic Enamel is not the answer...if it makes you feel any better, the first paint job I did was base clear, it turned out nice...that was when base clear was a brand new technology and they've made it even more user friendly over the years.

Ray
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:43 PM
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What is the difference between acrylic urethane and urethane basecoat? Thanks!
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:02 PM
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I was also wondering if I will need to re-tape between the base coat and the clearcoat?
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:22 PM
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Acrylic Urethane is a single stage paint, meaning you add hardner and in some cases reducer, apply the paint and the paint dries with a shine...if it's applied right and there aren't any metallic's in the paint. If the Acrylic Urethane has metallic's in it, well you will be working the paint real hard to try and get a shine...it's the nature of the beast. It should also be noted that Acrylic Urethane's and Poly Urethane's do take a substantial amount of time to dry.

A Base Coat paint generally does not take a catalyst just reducer (some manufacturer's recommend small amounts of hardner, paint such as Dupont's Imron use a hardner, however that paint is most commonly used in fleets such as tractor trailers, are difficult to repair in many cases), dries rapidly, in most cases 15 to 20 minutes and a Clear Coat needs to be applied to give you gloss your looking for.

You do not need to re-tape between automotive Base Coat and the Clear Coat. It is a very good idea to use a tack rag between coats of Base Coat and very important to tack between your last coat of Base and your first coat of Clear....DO NOT TACK BETWEEN COATS OF CLEAR.

I hope this answers your questions

Ray
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:52 PM
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Hi, I just primed it! It looks great thanks for all of your coaching.
How long do I wait to begin doing the Filler work?
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:56 PM
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Today is Tuesday, if you have a heated area or warm area 24 hours should be enough, unless you applied more than 2 coats of Epoxy, if you did give it an extra 12 to 24 hours. If it's cool, say 60 to 65 degrees, let it sit for 36 to 48 hours.

Glad to hear all went well, I love it when a plan comes together.

Ray
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:51 AM
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Couldn't have idone it without your teaching.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:12 PM
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Just Happy to help...All I want is for your car to turn out great, you get a bunch of experience and to pass on some of the things that have helped me in this trade.

Ray
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