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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2013, 03:03 PM
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Hi Ray,
It has been a while! but I am almost done applying the body filler, I am using rage gold btw. How should I approach the sanding stage? I am starting with the dual action sander, or am I starting with the straight line 17in hand tool? And also what grit am i starting with, and what are the progressions? Thanks so much!!

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2013, 07:24 PM
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Hi Ray, I found an old post where you answer most fo these questions. thanks
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:03 PM
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Hi Ray,
I hope you are having a nice Spring!
I have been using the Rage Gold filler, and I am about to start my first big wave of sanding. When I discover low spots--do I build it up with material right away, or should I do all the low spots at the same time?
Thanks as always,
Day
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:59 PM
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when I find low spots, I re-guidecoat and continue blocking as much as I can to knock off as much of the build as I can, until I start to see metal or sand through. The benefit is I don't want a lot of build and it makes the low spot less low, if it hasn't completely eliminated it. Don't just guidecoat it and block it once; you'll think you have it sanded flat once you've sanded all the guidecoat on, but then you'll apply more guidecoat and find it's still not all sanding off evenly.

The worst thing I ever did with filler was apply it, then come back the next day to sand it. Apply the filler and give it 20 minutes to tack up...may take more or less time depending on temp and the ratio of hardener you mixed in. I go by when the filler is hard but still feels kind of waxy on the surface. Then hit it with sharp, new 80 grit on a hard block to knock it down fast and straight. If you don't lay the mud nice and smooth then start with 40 grit. Once it's knocked down nice and flat, then go to 220 and feather it out nicely. The edges should be a nice feather, not a solid boundary, and you certainly shouldn't be able to feel the transition with your finger nail. The difference in my work between knocking it down vs coming back the next day when it was completely kicked was night and day. I could get twice as much done twice as fast, and twice as good.

Also, it helps not to just try and spot fill a low spot. Skim a good area all around the low spot, including the low spot itself, then block it flat. Most of the filler in the surrounding area will block off if it's straight, but now you'll be able to see exactly where the low spot was because it is filled. I generally have to do one more filler pass again to get it completely level (and I used to have to do many passes).

I'm not a pro like Ray is; I'm just a guy working on his 67 Mustang in his shop after work, been doing it for several years now, and talk to lots of pros and hang out here, took some paint and body classes at the local tech school. I've learned a lot of things through experience and/or the hard way, and have wanted to throw many hammers through windows. Fortunately the only thing I've thrown is my channel locks on the floor, and they busted into several pieces and I felt like I really got my revenge on them.

Also, check into ProSpray base coat systems. Ray, you should for that matter too. You became an SPI convert, you might become a ProSpray convert too. I haven't used it myself, but it's what I'll be putting on my car, it's what Barry suggests, it has a good price point, and is all the buzz with the SPI users.

SPI also has a few basecoats, but in very limited color selection (two reds, white, black).
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2013, 07:39 AM
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Thanks so much I really appreciate your input!
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:48 AM
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Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you..I've needed to look after several things that have required attention.

Lizer has given you some sound advice and thank you for filling in during my absence. I call hitting filler before it's totally cured "green", as not cured or dried up. When you cut your filler at this stage you will save a lot of time. If I can add to to what Lizer mentioned, if you start cutting your filler with 40 grit, I would recommend that in courser grits you never step up to a finer grit more than 100 grit above what you started with...and the courser the grit, the smaller the increment you need to step up to. If you start with 40 grit, your next grit should be either 80 grit or 100 grit...then move to 180 grit. If you like, after that you can block with 280 or 320. The reason for this is, if you start with 40 grit and you move directly to a grit much finer, you will spend a lot of time knocking out the 40 grit scratches, even if you can't see or feel them, chances are they will be there. Then when you prime the repaired area...it will fill these deeper scratches, in time it will feel cured and when you guide coat and block sand, they will look great...but...in fact what has happened is that the primmer in these deep scratches have solvents tapped in them. When you paint the car, the paint you apply also has solvents, these solvents will in fact draw the existing solvents our of the trapped solvents in your primmer and eventually (maybe 6 months after the car is painted) those sand scratches will reappear. This is commonly referred to as sinking. Sinking can be avoided by proper sanding as I mentioned and not loading your primer on, medium wet coats only....flash times are critical when apply primer to avoid sinking as well.

Also, and I can't stress this enough...use guide coat and when your blocking apply minimal pressure to your block, let the sand paper do the work. If you apply pressure while block sanding you will create waves, low spots and in reality, you have turned your block into an eraser to remove the guide coat and have defeated the purpose of block sanding.

Lizer, I have used Pro Spray several years ago (solvent only, i haven't tried their water born), it does work and I wouldn't be afraid to use it on a vehicle and your right, it does have a respectable price point. With the type of work I do, Pro Spray is somewhat limited with respect to specialty color selection and often it's my customer that determines the color. For that reason I use PPG Vibrance and Radiance for the most part when it comes to color. Also from my limited Pro Spray experience, older formulas from the 60's and 70's can be difficult to get through Pro Spray. That being said, there's nothing wrong with Pro Spray, there top end paint is comparable to to the major manufacturers with respect to coverage, application and being user friendly.

Again, I apologize for not responding sooner but, I should be able to spend more time now and if you have any further questions feel free to ask.

Ray
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2013, 05:41 AM
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Ray pointed out something I didn't even realize I said....that was going from 40 grit to 220 if the filler is rough. What I meant but neglected to say it clearly was start with 40 grit, THEN move to the 80 grit followed by finer grit. I have 180 grit sheets for my hookit board, but if I'm not doing an area that big, or an area that's contoured, I have Indasa 220 in a roll that I'll use instead. I don't find a major difference in the outcome...though sometimes I do have to skim the area with putty to fill in rogue scratches. I already have the putty, but don't have 180 in a roll. Yeah, that would be crazy to go 40-->220.

Last edited by Lizer; 05-30-2013 at 05:47 AM.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2013, 06:05 AM
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I dont think I've ever used the Rage Gold but I do use Z grip.Heres something else that could save you some time and make filler work a lot easier....once you get everthing roughed in with 40 (sanding green filler) go to 80 and give a little more sanding...Then skim over the entire area with EZ sand and starting with 80 continue blocking,if theres any low spots its a lot easier to get it right with the ez sand than bondo .I'll take the ez sand and block it all the way up tp 320 before I prime.Basicly I use the ez sand insted of primer to fill low spots and get everything nice and straight.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2013, 06:19 AM
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Right on the money Mike. I make a point to finish my filler in 320. People have actually asked me how come I never seem to get sand scratches showing up down the road...It's all a process and I realize that in a Body Shop environment, especially flat rate shops, finishing body work in that fine a grit might be thought of as over kill...but...if people knew how little extra time it takes they might just adopt the idea....especially in shops where the body man doesn't prime his body work. If the paint work does sink down the road and sand scratches show up, there's a lot of finger pointing going on...The prepper says the body man didn't finish his work fine enough and the body man says the prepper loaded on the primer and didn't give it enough flash time. Finish the filler in a fine grit and it eliminates a multitude of problems.

Ray
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2013, 08:01 AM
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Thanks so much for all of the assistance! Sanding really is that labor of LOVE. Could you please recommend a primer with great filling properties? And what kind of tip mm do I need on my gun so it won't get clogged or choked up?
cheers
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Old 05-30-2013, 09:25 AM
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You could continue to use SPI's Epoxy, it does sand well but if your after more build, SPI's 2K High Build Primer would work well. It's a 4 : 1 mix 4 parts primer 1 part activator. Minimum tip size to use would be 1.7 and you could use a tip as large as 2.5.. the kit will run you about $145.00 and for a high quality primer....that's a steal.

Hope this helps.

ray
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:05 AM
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After I get done sanding polyester primer surfacer can I go right to spraying basecoat, or do I need another kind of primer before I can spray basecoat??
THANKS
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:12 AM
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If you have properly sanded/prepped your primer, you can go right to base coat. Some people use a sealer, I don't. As I mentioned, if your primer is properly prepped...I'd go right to paint.

Ray
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:06 PM
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Primer question

Hi,
I am going to use a polyester primer surfacer, after I have that blocked down, do I need another primer, or can I go to color?
Thanks so much!
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:06 PM
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primer

Hi,
I am going to use a polyester primer surfacer, after I have that blocked down, do I need another primer, or can I go to color?
Thanks so much!
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