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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Typical car guy View Post
I'm also a canadian and when I started painting in the mid 80's deltron dbu was all ppg(ditzler back then) had as it was the first basecoat system for ppg,we used NCT and delglo clear on it.Then in the early to mid 90's dbc came out that had better metallics and pearls to match the newer colors(dbu today has a questionable color match for newer colors as does dbc all their research and development goes into envirobase)also around the same time 92ish? they came out with the concept line of single stage and clears like 2020.I have used a fair amount of ppg over my career but have mainly sprayed sikkens in the shops that I work at.
Yes you are correct the DBU base coat system was before the DBC system, not too many guys use this DBU anymore, as you say the DBC has more of the newer colors and better match. In fact the jobber I get my paint from told me he only has one customer that uses this DBU base coat.

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:29 PM
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I repped PPG for several years, as recently as 2009, DBU wasn't even an option as a base coat for customers, if it was available, I never heard about it and if as you mentioned "Typical car guy", the metallic's weren't great, may be that's why it wasn't available for my customers in 2008 and 2009 and would be why i never heard about it. What we had to offer was Envirobase (water born), Global, Deltron and Omni for base coat...some Concept (mostly clears), Omni had converters for AE and AU, Essentail and Evolution for the transportation side. But DBU for a base coat, never used it, never was brought out at any training seminar....as everything was being converted to be VOC compliant at that time.

Ray
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2013, 10:02 PM
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You are right Ray(my name is Jason)it was not available in Canada the dates you said,if you read my post the only time I used it was in the mid 80's,our jobber phased it out in the mid 90's when dbc took over.I have never repd for anybody but I have been spraying for 25 plus years.I'm out west in Alberta so maybe that is why we had it at one time.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Typical car guy View Post
You are right Ray(my name is Jason)it was not available in Canada the dates you said,if you read my post the only time I used it was in the mid 80's,our jobber phased it out in the mid 90's when dbc took over.I have never repd for anybody but I have been spraying for 25 plus years.I'm out west in Alberta so maybe that is why we had it at one time.
Love Alberta, I still feel as though Edmonton is home, I lived there for many years, was fortunate enough to have Edmonton Oiler season tickets in the Wayne Gretzky hay day era and am still a huge fan. Hope to be back out West before the end of the year.

As I said, I had never used it, heard of it or had anyone ask for it...but...thanks for bringing up the dates...that explains a lot.

Ray
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2013, 10:47 AM
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When I am sanding primer, in prep for color, can I jump from 320 to 600? Or is that too big a grit leap?
Thanks!
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2013, 10:53 AM
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For all intense and purpose, the answer would be yes, especially 600 wet paper, but, you need to make sure that every square inch of that vehicle is sanded completely and properly with 600 grit. Use guide coat on the entire surface of the area that you are sanding and don't stop sanding until the guide coat is gone. The guide coat, when applied over the entire area to be sanded, will tell you when the 320 footprint has been removed by the 600 grit.

And...again...use a block...even with 600 grit paper, your car will just turn out that much straighter.

Ray
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2013, 10:56 AM
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So I should start with the 400 wet and then go to 600 wet? Thanks so much
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2013, 11:15 AM
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As long as you follow the directions in my last post by using guide coat, you should be Okay. If you where skipping more than 100 in grit sizes like from 80 grit to 240 grit, that would be a big mistake. However, when you get to the finer grits, you can jump grit sizes much easier...for example, when you color sand your car for polishing, you can jump from 1,000 grit to 1,500 grit without a problem...the situation still remains that you need to remove the footprint from the previous grit, that's why guide coat is so important...now using guide coat is not about finding excessive highs and lows in your body work, it's about finding missed sand scratches...so apply your guide coat thoroughly and again keep block sanding until the guide coat has been sanded off.

Ray
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2013, 07:38 PM
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Thanks Ray!
What is your technique for getting the wet sanding residue off?
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2013, 08:16 PM
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What works best for me is water...I know it's messy but, it's like cooking a meal, I clean up as I go. When I cook, if I don't clean pots, pans or whatever, I have a big mess on my hands, the kitchen is turned upside down and my wife yells at me. If your not constantly cleaning as your wet sanding you will have a huge mess to clean up at the end...that includes keeping the surrounding environment clean as well, especially if your going to be painting in the same space...so housekeeping is very important. I've seen many a job ruined after all that hard work because of dirt in a paint job that could have been avoided by cleaning as you go.

When I prep a car, I go one panel at a time, constantly wiping it down with a different bucket of water than my wet sanding bucket. When I get close to where I want to be, I start using Wax and Grease remover. The reason for that is 2 fold, #1) I know if I'm using W & G remover that the panel will be free of contaminants and my favorite reason #2) is that it's thinner than water, so it shows a much better reflection so that I can be sure that the panel is straight.

Hope this helps....just wondering, is this job turning out to be easier or harder than you thought it would be before you started?

Hope this answers your question, if you need more clarification, let me know and I'll try and help.

Ray
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2013, 07:42 AM
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That's a great question...I think the job is turning out to be bigger, but at the same time it feels a lot more rewarding- if that makes sense. I truly credit you and all of the very knowledgeable people on the forum for the education. I have learned sooo much.
In an earlier post you mentioned that it would be ideal to not go directly to spraying clear after finishing spraying the color, what is ideal 12 hours, 24 hours? Do I tack the car off again before spraying clear or just use air to blow it off?
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2013, 08:03 AM
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It does make a lot of sense, I still get a feeling of pride after I finish a big job.

What I mean about letting your base sit for a while before clearing is that it is ideal if you can let it sit for 8 to 12 hours before clearing. The reason for this is that you want all the solvents from the base coat gone when you clear your car. Sometimes, in those crazy corners, base coat can collect, the rest of the car has flashed or dried but, all you need is for one little spot not to be totally flashed and you will trap solvents which could cause the clear to peal in that area. Don't wait to long though, most manufacturer's recommend clearing the base coat within 24 hours for best adhesion. So let it sit, if you can, like I said, the best would be 8 to 12 hours, the minimum is when the base has totally flashed. When you go to clean the car with a tag rag and a blow gun before you apply the clear (that answers your other question about cleaning the of before clear coat) get into those corners and edges with your tack rag, usually if any base has collect and is not totally flashed it will show up then by you disturbing the base coat...just give it plenty of flash time between base and clear and you will be Okay.

You can always let me know the day your going to spray and I'll stay by my computer if I can or you could PM me, I'll give you my telephone number if you have any questions that need immediate attention.

Hope this helps.

Ray
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2013, 08:20 AM
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Such Great Help! Thanks as always!!!
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2013, 08:27 AM
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LOL...I've stuck with you this far, I don't want you to have any problems while you paint....I almost feel like the car is partly mine...LOL...and I love anything Pontiac too,

Seriously, all you need to do is ask, I'll be happy to help where I can.

Best Regards my friend

Ray
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 06:27 AM
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Hi Ray,
I am concerned about getting all of the muddy sludge from wet sanding off the car, should I wheel it outside and give it a real hose off? Or should I really try to stick to the rag and clean water, get close, then use wax/grease cleaner? Is the outcome og going wet worth all the mess, as compared to going dry? Thanks as always!
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