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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
Would you wet sand body filler? My answer to that question is 'No,' which is why I elected not too. Apparently it's the same answer as Barry's. My fear is the poly primer absorbing too much water and not getting out. I think deadbodyman has actually discussed situations where it lifted when wet sanded. This clearly needs googled. I'd consider spraying 2k over it, blocking and wet sanding that but a concern of Barry's was having too many different substrates on there.

How long is long enough to breathe? After sanding these I'll be sealing in good time and I think it would be devastating to have that moisture trapped in there.
Agree with "no" on wet sanding poly primer and all the reasons you have given. The poly primer I am using now is super porous, would not even consider wet sanding this stuff as it would probably soften it up a bit. And this particular poly must be topcoated with an epoxy or 2K, hence the name its called "base primer".

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mr4speed View Post
Agree with "no" on wet sanding poly primer and all the reasons you have given. The poly primer I am using now is super porous, would not even consider wet sanding this stuff as it would probably soften it up a bit. And this particular poly must be topcoated with an epoxy or 2K, hence the name its called "base primer".
the huge consensus I've found on the web is 'NO' as well. I can't even believe Evercoat makes the claim that it can be wet sanded.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
Would you wet sand body filler? My answer to that question is 'No,' which is why I elected not too. Apparently it's the same answer as Barry's. My fear is the poly primer absorbing too much water and not getting out. I think deadbodyman has actually discussed situations where it lifted when wet sanded. This clearly needs googled. I'd consider spraying 2k over it, blocking and wet sanding that but a concern of Barry's was having too many different substrates on there.

How long is long enough to breathe? After sanding these I'll be sealing in good time and I think it would be devastating to have that moisture trapped in there.
Of course you are correct about any moisture causing major issues if it got trapped. Have you considered dry sanding it with a coarser grit and priming with 2 coats of SPI Epoxy and then wet sanding that with 400-600? Most epoxies do not sand well but I used SPI Epoxy when I repainted my doors and then blocked them with 400 and a guide coat. It really worked well.

My fear would be first that it will take forever to dry sand with 400. Secondly, I am not sure you can keep it clean enough not to get nib scratches in it. I would want to do my final sanding wet even if it meant using a 2k or epoxy primer for final prep. As I already mentioned I am not the professional here but I certainly have experienced the situation you are in.

I painted a 47 ford in 1978 with Eliminator which was one of the eariest polyester primers. I know I wet sanded it. It is in the shop now getting repainted. The paint I put on it only lasted 45 years. Obviously the moisture did have plenty of time to escape.

John L
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
I went out and started the other fender with this (it's one of the few panels with 2k and not poly) and it was SO much faster needless to say. The paper cuts better, faster, longer. The problem is I can't see the scratches very well when doing it wet.
Using a squeegee to squeegee away the water is the Holy Grail to wet sanding, be it now or cutting the clear for buffing, it gives you even more control over what you are doing than if you were dry sanding.



R & E Paint Supply. 3M 02037, 500 Grit, Imperial Wet or Dry Sandpaper

Your local paint store will have them.

Brian
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Using a squeegee to squeegee away the water is the Holy Grail to wet sanding, be it now or cutting the clear for buffing, it gives you even more control over what you are doing than if you were dry sanding.



R & E Paint Supply. 3M 02037, 500 Grit, Imperial Wet or Dry Sandpaper

Your local paint store will have them.

Brian
They are really great. I use them a lot. not just for squeegees but sanding blocks when color sanding on crown areas. I think they are the only thing 3M sells that are cheap.

John

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Old 05-02-2013, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
the huge consensus I've found on the web is 'NO' as well. I can't even believe Evercoat makes the claim that it can be wet sanded.
I have seen nothing that I remember on a tech sheet saying to wet sand any of Evercoat's poly primers. But if it did, using the product the tech sheet is for I would say heck yes do it, Evercoat is one of the best and if they said it do it. But I don't believe they do.

Brian
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Old 05-03-2013, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
I have seen nothing that I remember on a tech sheet saying to wet sand any of Evercoat's poly primers. But if it did, using the product the tech sheet is for I would say heck yes do it, Evercoat is one of the best and if they said it do it. But I don't believe they do.

Brian
I need to confirm which one I have. Normal VOC doesn't say anything about wet sanding

http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/pis/EU/...%20English.pdf

Low VOC: easily sands wet or dry

http://evercoat.com/imgs/pis/SLICKSANDPIS.pdf
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2013, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by John long View Post
Of course you are correct about any moisture causing major issues if it got trapped. Have you considered dry sanding it with a coarser grit and priming with 2 coats of SPI Epoxy and then wet sanding that with 400-600? Most epoxies do not sand well but I used SPI Epoxy when I repainted my doors and then blocked them with 400 and a guide coat. It really worked well.

My fear would be first that it will take forever to dry sand with 400. Secondly, I am not sure you can keep it clean enough not to get nib scratches in it. I would want to do my final sanding wet even if it meant using a 2k or epoxy primer for final prep. As I already mentioned I am not the professional here but I certainly have experienced the situation you are in.

I painted a 47 ford in 1978 with Eliminator which was one of the eariest polyester primers. I know I wet sanded it. It is in the shop now getting repainted. The paint I put on it only lasted 45 years. Obviously the moisture did have plenty of time to escape.

John L
John, I agree 7 billion percent. I was laying in bed thinking of a way I could wet sand this which really ended up with shooting full epoxy, and then thinking how ridiculously long it would take me to do all of it, and how much paper it would use.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:17 AM
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If this is just a base primer you are trying to sand, why go with such a fine grit? For a full / big job - do your bodywork, ruff it in down to 80, prime it, block it straight with 80, prime it, block once more with 180, final prime and sand it with 400. Then seal it and paint (wet on wet).
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 33Willys77 View Post
If this is just a base primer you are trying to sand, why go with such a fine grit? For a full / big job - do your bodywork, ruff it in down to 80, prime it, block it straight with 80, prime it, block once more with 180, final prime and sand it with 400. Then seal it and paint (wet on wet).
the 600 was only because I was doing metallic, but was not considering that it is a moot point when I'm putting sealer over it anyways.

What I'm going to end up doing is final block with 220 as I've done, two coats epoxy, then wet sand with 600. I won't be able to put paint on wet on wet.
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
I went out and started the other fender with this (it's one of the few panels with 2k and not poly) and it was SO much faster needless to say. The paper cuts better, faster, longer. The problem is I can't see the scratches very well when doing it wet.
I wont sand anything without a guide coat,not even bondo..Use a guidecoat from start to finish...Now you know why I hate poly primers especially slick sand and feather fill..The ONLY thing they do well is HEAVY building and suck up water. If a panel or a whole car is so wavey it needs to be built up so much a 2k cant fill it ,HOLY crap someone needs to go back to school most oF the time an epoxy like SPI will do anything we need as far as building I usually go through about 2 gal (4sprayable) of epoxy to 1qt of 2k...using SPI of coarse...
Poly primers(spray bondo) really just make more work for you when you think about. lets say you have some waves and you want them filled so you spray the whole panel ,you have to block off everything else what a waste of time and material, mosy guys start off doing it then give up and just sand untill its straight ,leaving a massive amount of primer still on that panel because it sands so hard...You guys that are using and actually like these poly primers are still young and probably NEED to work of all that extra testosterone But us older bulls ,we like to make life EZer and walk down that hill and do'em ALL...
I just blocked out a hood I sprayed with two coats of epoxy and guide coated ,using 180 (dry) 20 min then I breezed over that (2min) with 320 dry just to knock down the roughness of the 180 reprimed 2 coats of epoxy and its ready for 400 wet,then a quick 600...This car HAS to be perfect its going SPI black and if it takes an hour to finish block ,I probably have a hang over....Using a poly primer makes absolutly no sence to me at all. I do all my filling BEFORE primer with poly putty like EZ sand...BTW, when we used that poly primer we sanded it with 80 grit I cant even imagine sanding it with anything finer..
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:47 AM
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I'm a scientist, not a professional body man. And I've already been through 8 years of school.
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
I'm a scientist, not a professional body man. And I've already been through 8 years of school.
Does that mean you cant learn anything else???? I learned the HARD way about these primers and blocking also..8 yrs is nothing..As much as you gonna hate hearing this: This is what I would do at this point...get a long stiff block and 80 grit and block all that poly off leaving it in the waves but nothing left where it isnt needed...spray two coats of SPI epoxy and block that with 180 dry then two more coats blocked out with a long rubber block 400 wet....then 600 ...
something else that poly primer does well is chip real easy...so be extra sure theres none at the edges like your jambs and wheel openings...
Since your not a pro I'll asume that your doing this for fun and enjoyment not to mention a love of old cars..Theres nothing fun about blocking so why make it harder than it needs to be you can block that off of there in no time and make things much more enjoyable using SPI and it'll last....
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:25 PM
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I've been spraying SPI for the last 3 years, and it's the only thing I've ever sprayed (besides the Slick Sand). The Slick Sand is already blocked nearly off with 220. I think it sands like butter once I break through the crust with 120. Your suggestion isn't really any different than what's already been talked about here or what I've discussed with Barry, and it's what I'll be doing. Two coats of epoxy, wet sand to 600. I get little to no peel when I spray the epoxy so it will be easy sanding smooth. This is actually more convenient for me because I can just shoot the panels outside and if I get trash on them it will be sanded out.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mr4speed View Post
NO water (wet sanding) will not touch the dry guidecoat only sanding it off will get rid of it. If you are using the old flat black spray paint technique, trust me hands down the powder works and shows much more because it gets into every crevice there is.
This is what I heard too.dry is way better than spray can guide coat,so I went down and got some but when checking out it cost so much I left it there and ended up cursing 3-M again heck with my luck I'd drop it and dump it all over the floor...Isnt it just powderd charcoal?
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