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Old 09-24-2011, 11:30 PM
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How much torque can a 700R4 handle?

I've had 3 "built" 700R4's in various vehs. and they worked great but I know they have their limits. I've been in the process of building a '32 Ford Victoria ...for way too many years now. I had a 331" sbc/700R4 but wanted something different. Sold the Chevy and trans and now I'm building a fairly warm 507" Cadillac/400 turbo.

The rear is a VERY heavy duty Currie 9" with a 31 spline 4 pinion posi, 3.50 ratio. The dynosim (I know it's iffy) on this engine parts combo shows 504 hp and 634 lbs.ft. torque....who really knows how much but the stock big Cads are major stump pullers.

The car is a f/glass body with steel fenders but still should only weigh about 2800 lbs. I'm not going to beat this thing to death but I will get on it occasionally...so my question is, can a 700R4 be built to withstand this kind of torque on a "every once in a while" basis without breaking the bank.....or the trans?

The original 400 turbo is brand new rebuilt, new pump, frictions, steels and if you could run a lockup conv. in a 400 I would just stay with it but as far as I know that won't work. I do remember an article where one guy had figured out a lockup for the 400 but I can't recall where. I have a line on the 700R4 trans. adapter so thats not a problem. Also, since I don't need any kind of a high stall converter can a low stall (1200-1300) unit be built and modified to try and eliminate as much slippage as possible while cruising...or is it going to slip anyway. Thanks for any info....Dave
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Last edited by 327NUT; 09-24-2011 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:44 AM
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I have heard people talk on ThirdGen.Org about how a 700r4 can handle 700 horsepower built (hear say), i couldnt really tell you how much torque, but im sure if it can handle 700 hp, it should handle up the same amount of torque cause the torque comes first. But this is not a fact, just an observation, maybe someone else could cure our curiosity bc ik they handle 350 HP stock.
O and by the way nice build!
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:25 AM
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If you are going with big power and high vehicle weight step up to the 4l80e/4l85e, it is pretty much a th 400 with an overdrive.

peace
Hog
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:23 AM
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Search for "switch pitch" converter info for th400.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:39 AM
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Please remember its not horsepower that breaks them; its torque.
I would avoid a manual valvebody and transbrake for longevity's sake. If you have a small tire car with a mild suspension, it will help the trans live a lot longer (blow the tires off before the trans grenades). This trans should be okay if properly prepared, but I don't think it will last 50,000miles.

Also, make sure you align everything properly (some adapters aren't the most accurate).
Please run a driveshaft safety loop; its peanuts compared to new legs
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:05 AM
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As a GM tech, years ago we were told GM trannies were numbered according to the torque they were rated at. 350 = 350 lbs/ft, 400 and 700 the same. This changed when the started the T and L designations for Transverse (FWD) and Longitudinal (RWD) and I don't know the formula for those.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:25 AM
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this is very useful, i plan on putting a 402 big block infront of a 700r4. I gotta admit these overdrives save $$ at the pump
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:24 PM
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My Car was built with a 700R4 in mind, and mid-build I went with more horsepower, so I was very concerned about it living. I called Hughes Transmission to get their take on the subject-

Me: Will a 700R4 live behind a 540 Big Block Chevy in a street-driven Hot Rod?

Hughes Transmissions: Yes, but if you put in a 4L80E you will only put it in once-

That was all I needed to hear, so I am working now to finish up the install-is it big? Yes! Is it heavy? Yes! Will I sleep at night knowing I can do that big, hairy burnout at the Car Show and not embarrass myself (well, more than usual) with a broken Car (if I DO a burnout)? Yes!

I am having to make a new Transmission Hump (removeable this time), and it hangs a little lower than I'd like, but I know it's strong-

Last edited by 35WINDOW; 09-26-2011 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:15 PM
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Not sure how accurate this is >> http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/oftrn.htm...n%20Comparison

327Nut you should ask how much it will cost to make a 700R4/4L60 reliable behind that much TQ. I'm sure it take a few $$, Billet Input Shaft, Reinforced Drum etc..
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:45 AM
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Frank,
That's a very reasonable price.
Has anyone stepped up yet with a better/stronger Input Drum?

Todd
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scnd70
The '80E might be a good swap option for a cruiser, but not a drag car. We usually saw customers run 2-3 tenths slower in the quarter mile when we did the swap on a few 4th gen F-Bodies. The '80E is huge, and eats alot of horsepower, in addition the the extra weight. I have 4400# Impala SS's running in the 9's with '60E's. In the past 5 years, I've done alot of swaps back to 60E's for customers who thought they needed a 400. A 700/4L60E can be built to take over 800 HP.

If anyone ever questions how much a 700/4L60E will take, here's 3 of mine... All 3 are over 3 years old. 2 are 10 second cars...The other is in the 9's




Frank
Nice cars, do you daily or even occasionally drive these cars?

The OP was looking into low stall TC's, so I assumed he is looking for cruising capability.

I have never had good luck with built 60e's, seems as though stock 60e's with DCLF V6 4.3's and shiftkits are more durable, but I think thats the lack of skillset on the trans builders part.

A good trans builder is worth theri weight in gold. A good trans is so much more than throwing in good parts.

peace
Hog
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:30 PM
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Ok....I'm back, sorry for not responding to any of the reply's but I was on a 1200 mile bonsai run up to Boise, Id. and back home to So. Utah. I sold my '32 Victoria body to a guy, part of the deal was me delivering it.....20 hours of driving on 1 hr of sleep.....I was on fumes when I got home.

Anywho let me clear up some misconceptions or confusion and no offense, I know you guys are trying to help. This car will weigh 2800 lbs. so it will fry the tires if I get on it too hard. It's a street rod with A/C, gonna be a cruiser not a race car, although it will have some suds. So, someone mentioned torque not hp is the culprit, I know that's why I asked how much torque can they handle........someone mentioned a manual valve body and trans brake, this is race stuff, never mentioned it, not even in the equation.........The adapter from Cad bolt pattern to the trans. is a Wilcap and last but not least I built a driveshaft loop a long time ago for this chassis. even with the 331" SBC.

Looks like 10scnd70 knows what he's talking about, I was looking at a video where the owner was showing the mods he did to a 700, I believe he mentioned putting a sleeve on the shaft.(?????) dunno. thanks anyway for all the info, like I tell new guys, the more you educate yourself, the less chance you have of making a mistake or getting screwed...........Dave

Last edited by 327NUT; 09-27-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:13 AM
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Good Info Frank,
I see why the Steel Piston can't be used with a sleeved Drum. >> http://www.sonnax.com/system/instruc...733-01K-IN.pdf
What do you use, Hardened Drum?

TC's with Multi Disc TCC such as the Vigilante 3, 5 & 7 Discs do have a very firm Lockup. Many people complain about them being very noisy at Idle, like marbles rattling around. They send them back for repair, which basically tightens up the clutch clearances, then the Clutches burn up in no time. No win situation. Most end up going with a Non-Lockup TC.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:10 AM
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Thanks for the info Frank.

Do you have any input on the Sonnax Smartshell, 77749-02K?
Do you like the actual GM 5 pinion plates, or GM 4 pinion planets?

I do some PCM tuning as well, as a builder what changes if any do like to see tune'wise to accompany your transmissions?

I notice that stock GM calibrations lock the TCC of 80e's at TPS% of 87% and higher in 2nd gear in the 3/4 ton+ trucks and at WOT above 75% in 3rd gear in the 1/2 tons with the 60e's. Any idea why GM would do this? To keep temps down? I get better et's if I dont lock in 3rd, but mph is up.


327NUT, with a weight of 2800 lbs, keeping a well built 700/60e together shouldnt be an issue. Your car should accelerate VERY well.

peace
Hog
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10scnd70
Smart shell? LOL...How many times have you ever seen the 4 tang plastic washer worn in a 700/4L60E? The shell doesn't even ride on that washer. The shell rides on the snap ring on the sun gear, which rides on the bearing in the rear planetary. With that in mind, what are we accomplishing by replacing a washer with a bearing? The only time that washer sees use is if the rear sprag inner race moves forward. I've been using The Beast shell in everything for 12-13 years now.
% pinion planetaries aren't neccessary. They also add alot of weight. Most planet failures are due to the bearing coming apart and shedding needles. The only GOOD 5 pinion planetaries are original GM ones. I've seen aftermarket 5 pinions blow apart at low milage.
I ALWAYS request that pressure be set back to stock with my builds. I work closely with PCMForLess to tune stuff for me. For the most part, it's just shift timing mods.
Yeah, I'm aware of the higher MPH in SOME vehicles, but ET wins drag races...Not MPH...LOL

Frank
Ya Bryan's a good guy, you also must be the builder of Pat Gish's 9 second B-body. We have mutual interests in L31 trucks, he has had good results in his truck with his Yank 3600. Bryans L31 tune also works very well on his truck.

I was curious about the Smart shell sinces its so new.

Sounds like you are havuing good luck with the 700/60e's.

Thanks again for all the info.

peace
Hog
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