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Old 08-13-2011, 08:52 PM
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how to run 383 stroker on pump gas

im trying to find a way to how i can run my 383 stroker on pump gas. it has 12.5:1 compression so i was mixing 50/50 with pump and 100LL. that started to get old and exspensive fast so i switch over to E85 and bought a E85 carb. come to find out thats not working out to good for me either. i would like to just lower my compression so i can run on pump gas and have 400whp. this is what my car has

port matched and angle milled bow tie heas with stainless manley valves 2.065 int 1.625 ex 58cc combustion chambers

flat top pistons

victor jr intake matched to heads

3/8 chromemoly pushrods screw in studs plates and roller tip rocker arms

292H comp cam with rhodes lifters

850 holly double pumper with rear power valve

msd 6a electronic timing control

i know i want to get some aluminum heads for it. would that and some larger cc work with pump gas? or would i have to change to some inv pistons? also before i switched carbs to e85 it ran a best of 13.1 at 108 at the track on street tires. help please!!!!!!

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Old 08-13-2011, 10:35 PM
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If you want to save money and don't mind doing the work. Put thicker head gaskets on it to drop some compression. You can use a compression calculator and figure in what thickness of gaskets you need to get the compression your looking for...
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:40 PM
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How do you come up with 12.5 c.r.?

Even with zero deck, .041 gasket and 58 cc heads and -6 cc for valve reliefs I get 11.8. If your pistons are .025 in the hole it's 11.01, both a little high, but you should be able to tune it to run on 93 gas.

That being said, at zero deck, and 64 cc heads you have 10.35, 72 cc's will get you 9.54.

You're also over carbed IMO, what trans and gear, car weight? 11:1 is a little high, but isn't unheard of for good pump gas if you have the right tune and setup.
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Last edited by 68NovaSS; 08-13-2011 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:11 PM
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thanks for the replys!!! yeah the gasket would help. i thought about that too. so heres the story. i bought the car from a guy that built the engine for a dirt car. he then dropped it in the el camino then lost interest in it and it sat for 20 years. he said it had 12.5 compression and built the engine so i was just taking his word. it dont seem like that much but i know its high like probably 11.5. im not to sure on all the specs on the engine. all i know is what i typed. i did notice that it seems to run smoother on e85 and it doesnt want to choke or cough when i shut if off anymore. i just want to rum pump gas. i dont want to have to fill up jugs everytime i need gas. i dont think its every had a tune. it did run really good before i switched it though. i think the carb is a 830cfm. thats just what it came with when i bought the car. it has a muchie 4 speed with 373 gears.
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:48 PM
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The best you are going to be able to push the spark advance with 12:1 on 92 octane pump gas is limit it to around 28deg max advance.

Lock out the distributor advance curve and set the locked timing at 28deg BTDC.

Not optimum but it will run pn pump gas

The 292H magnum cam will work fine on 92 octane if the real cr is 10.5:1 or less.

Drag racing: on the right fuel for the cr.... lock out the distrubutor 34 to 38deg BTDC.

Be sure the timing tab is accurate using a piston stop to verify location.

I get 11.86:1 with flat tops 58cc heads and a 0deck height.

Way too much for pump gas.. w full power timing 10.5:1 or less is all good.

Head swap, piston swap, better gas.

850 holley Dp jetting 80 square with front and rear power valves.

single primary front power valve jetting 80-83 pri and 88-90 sec ( 3.5 or 4.5" powervalves)

Do not load this high compression motor down at low rpm WOT when on pump gas. Do not lug this motor... good for easy part throttle street driving only.
This motor needs high octane fuel. Go easy on it.

Ditch the rhoads lifters.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 08-13-2011 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:03 AM
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Get new heads with a 68 to 75cc combustion chamber.
Brodix, AFR etc etc. Sell your 58cc angle milled Bowties to someone who has a 350 or dished pistons.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:13 AM
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yeah i was thinking some 64cc int202 ex 160 heads. would that be good? then get a thicker head gasket. how thick you think? also how are you coming up with the 11.8 compression? i would like to get about 10.5 and run 92 octane
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 383elky
yeah i was thinking some 64cc int202 ex 160 heads. would that be good? then get a thicker head gasket. how thick you think? also how are you coming up with the 11.8 compression? i would like to get about 10.5 and run 92 octane
If the pistons are flush with the block at TDC you want a 68 to 75cc head and a .041" gasket. How may times do you want to fix this motor?

A 64cc head needs to be opened up to 68+cc for your motor.

64cc heads need a dish piston on a pump gas 383.

A Brodix IK200 with 70cc chambers is a easy fix on your motor.
http://www.wheelspin.net/calc/calc2.html

Dart Pro 1 200 or 215 ( 72cc chambers)

AFR 195 eliminators #1036 75cc chambers. (you can factory direct order 75cc AFR's milled to 70-72cc for this motor at nominal extra cost)

three easy ways to correct this motor before you lunch it.

You can fix it once or fix it 10 times $$$ your choice $$$

In the mean time put good gas in the tank or stay off the throttle.

4.030, 3.75, 4.166, .041, 58, -5, 0 = 11.86:1 cr

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 08-14-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:32 AM
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Another alternative is to replace the flat top pistons with a -18cc dished piston.

Did you actually CC your heads? A thick head gasket often makes the motor more knock sensitive. A real 10.5:1 cr is pushing it on pump gas even with proper quench clearance.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:30 AM
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Here's one of many free calculators online, it'll help.
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:38 PM
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ok so i was messing around with the calculater and i came up with 12.7 compression. did i type in something wrong? heres what i did

cylinder di. 4.030 in

stroke length 3.75 in

cylinders 8

chamber 58 cc

pistons flat top 0

gasket .041

i found if i go with 74cc heads i would drop down to 10.5 if everything is correct above. would 74cc heads with flat top pistons be best or 64cc heads with dish pistons. im lost on the difference between the two besides the size. i want to gains power and still drop compression.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 383elky
ok so i was messing around with the calculater and i came up with 12.7 compression. did i type in something wrong? heres what i did

cylinder di. 4.030 in

stroke length 3.75 in

cylinders 8

chamber 58 cc

pistons flat top 0

gasket .041

i found if i go with 74cc heads i would drop down to 10.5 if everything is correct above. would 74cc heads with flat top pistons be best or 64cc heads with dish pistons. im lost on the difference between the two besides the size. i want to gains power and still drop compression.
You need to know piston to deck to know what the compression ratio is I don't see that you included that. Your flat tops are not likely zero CCs of relief. They are probably 6cc or close to it.

Gain power and drop compression? Probably not going to happen without a power adder or a cam swap done as well. Which brings up another thought, you may be able to just leave the compression and use a cam that has more overlap, duration thus building less cylinder pressure.

There are other things you can do to make the engine less pone to ping.

160-180* stat
Overkill cooling system
Overkill ignition system
Cold air intake
Thermal coatings on intake, pistons, exhaust ports
Lower gear ratio in diff to take the load off the engine
Use no more total timing than needed
Polish combustion chambers
Block off heat crossover (if currently used)
.
.
.
Plus more
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:00 PM
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The numbers you used on the cr calc are wrong. see my post.

gasket 4.166x .041

flat top piston -5 to -7cc The valve reliefs have volume not 0

piston deck clearance at TDC must be measured to get accurate results

garbage in =garbage out.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stinger460
If you want to save money and don't mind doing the work. Put thicker head gaskets on it to drop some compression. You can use a compression calculator and figure in what thickness of gaskets you need to get the compression your looking for...
BZZZZZTTT, wrong answer. Thicker gaskets will lower the static compression ratio, but they will also increase the squish, resulting in the motor detonating worse than it does now.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:35 PM
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how much cam do i need. i have a pretty big one right now. also one person says -cc pistons the other +cc. on the calc it said 0 for flat - for dish + for dome. i think im going to just go with some 72cc heads and get a tune. that seems to be the best im going to get. just use a .041 gasket. i dont know what deck it has but assuming a 0 deck would be the worst case right
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