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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2006, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
if you put the bars verticle, they are fine, set them horizontal and they will crack. I have put many vehicles on cinder blocks, just not very high nor have I put blocks on more than 1 corner. never had 1 even start to crack. I use standard 12" blocks. my '67 Falcon's front end structure sits up too high for my jack stands to work, so I put the block under, and then set a jack stand center of the block/ frame and lower the bumper jack down just until it touches the frame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallie49
suit yourself, tell that to the three blokes we had to use airbags to lift the cars off of....well as two of em, they were lucky and lived with minor maiming...the other had his head squashed like a grape...he was actually one of the two that were doing it the way you discribed...but then again experience is the best instructor
There might be some folks wondering how such different extremes, as expressed in the above quotes, can happen. Ask any mason about how block and brick walls stand. Chances are you will get an answer similar to the one I was given, that the parts are like old drunks, each leaning on and depending on the other in order to stand there.

Concrete blocks can withstand compression loads well only when those loads are evenly dissipated over the block. They don't stand up well to impacts, uneven loads or loads concentrated on just part of the block. Note that a block in a wall is resting on a level footer with mortar smoothing out any irregularities and has the same situation above it to spread the load it carries over its entire structure. That load is almost entirely vertical and essentially static.

Placing a 2" wide frame on the top of a 7-1/2" wide by 15-1/2" long concrete block concentrates the load on less than 1/3 of the block, *if* the frame makes full, even contact for the full length of the block. If you turn the block over on its side, with the holes running side to side, it is even more of a death trap because even less concrete is carrying the load. Any rocking of the load will increase the concentration and increase the likelihood of the block failing (shattering) suddenly. You start jerking on a part and the entire weight of the car could suddenly be depending on a very tiny fraction of that block to carry it. That tiny fraction will fracture. So will you.

I have gotten away with using concrete blocks a few times, but have never placed any part of a car directly on the block. I always build a pad of wood on top of the blocks (a length of 2x8 will just cover a concrete block, in the U.S.) and only use the blocks on suitable dirt. The few times I've needed to work under a car when resorting to blocks, I've always used 2 blocks for each 'post' built, as well as the wood padding. (You can see such a rig in one of the early entries in my journal. 4x4's are used to tie the pairs of blocks together and more 4x4's, crosswise of the ties, are used to spread the load across the surface of the blocks). This is still very, very risky and I would not recommend it to anyone.

Just because you might get away with crossing a busy highway without looking first, doesn't mean it's a good way to get from one side to the other.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2006, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsrods
And don't ever do it the way this guy has done it.



Don
First time I saw that picture, this ran through my head as a possible caption:

Spark, bang, plop, squish

He's welding near the gas tank, right? An alternative caption could be: Drop, fold, mutilate, cremate
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2006, 11:35 PM
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I have a bunch of jackstands, steel sawhorses and post stands made from farmer discs and 4" pipe with plates on top.

I use whatever is tall enough to keep my back from hurting.

When I dont want stuff to move, but don't want it permanently mounted to the floor, I use bondo. Bondo makes an excellent temporary glue for sticking jackstands and tables to the floor. It will discolor the floor and require some grinding afterwards , but it is quicker than drilling.

later, mikey
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Old 08-25-2006, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch
First time I saw that picture, this ran through my head as a possible caption:

Spark, bang, plop, squish

He's welding near the gas tank, right? An alternative caption could be: Drop, fold, mutilate, cremate
You got a sense humor, I luv that second caption!

gcrmcc
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2006, 02:18 PM
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What to shim with??

tm454 when you used jack stands what did you use to shim the frame while using jack stands?? I have priced steel around Denver and right now its out of my project budget. I would like to have a jig, but for a single use (at least for now) it just doesn't make sense to build it.

I've measured my frame and in the rear I'm almost dead even just about a 1/8" off level. In the front I'm almost 1 1/2" different If you look in my journal you can really see It Just look at the engine. By the way when I pulled the engine the passenger motor mount just fell off the frame. I cant believe some of the poor work that was done to this truck...

back to the subject.... How would I tweak the frame level before welding in my crossover??

Last edited by DV8; 09-19-2006 at 02:21 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2006, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DV8
[...]
back to the subject.... How would I tweak the frame level before welding in my crossover??
You could use wood cribbing. Think "Lincoln logs", only with flat or square pieces instead of round. Check out "Figure 4." on this page: http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d001701...1/d001791.html

That example looks too narrow for its height, to me, but you won't need to get that high anyway. Every layer of 2x4s gets you 1-1/2" higher. 6 layers puts you 9" off the floor. You can use pairs of wooden shims (long, tapered wooden wedges used to plumb doors) to fine tune each support to get the frame level.
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Old 09-29-2006, 09:56 AM
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I have 4 old travel trailer screw jacks. I level everything in all directions, then pull square by measuring diagonal. It's not high tech but it is simple, inexpensive and it works.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2006, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willowbilly3
I have 4 old travel trailer screw jacks. I level everything in all directions, then pull square by measuring diagonal. It's not high tech but it is simple, inexpensive and it works.
That sounds too easy and safe. There has to be something immoral about doing it that way. Or at least, fattening.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsrods
And don't ever do it the way this guy has done it.
Don
This is about the only available way in much of South America. Saw this and even scarier methods in Colombia.

Me, I just can't get enough jacks - stationary, scissors, hydraulic and then I block it up with almost anything that wont break. Never with concrete/cinder blocks or bumper jacks.

Dave
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2006, 03:53 PM
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Jacks

I went with tm454's advise. I got 4 jackstands and used some 1X3 steel to cross the jackstands. Its pretty stout and It didnt break the bank. With everything off the frame it's not really that heavy. so far so good. All we have left to do is tack/weld the front crossmember in.
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