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Old 12-23-2009, 11:37 PM
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How to tell paint type?

I picked up a gallon of blue metallic pearl paint off ebay for really cheap. I was TOLD it was PPG Deltron DBC, But when I received the paint it had a limco 1-2-3 urethane label turned around backwards and a deltron quart label taped to it. I emailed the guy with my findings and he told me the label was removed and he used the limco label backwards because it was the only label he had around. Sounded fishy but for the price I paid it was no big deal.

The part I don't understand is he has no reason to lie. In the ebay auction it was advertised as "Base coat" only. No name or type was mentioned. I only paid $18 for it so even if it was acrylic enamel it would be a good deal. So why lie? Today I started playing with the paint to determine if it is deltron or limco urethane or other. Here is my findings.

1: It is Very thick like deltron dbc. According to the backwards limco label their single stage urethane is a 4:1:%5 mix. No way could this paint be sprayed at that mixture, It is much to thick. It seems more like the 1:1 ratio of deltron.

2: I took three small cups and put a little of the paint in each cup. 1st cup I did nothing to, 2nd cup I added some Limco LHM hardner, and 3rd cup I added some Deltron DT reducer. Now this is where it gets strange. The paint in all three cups dried & hardened the same. That tells me that it is NOT a 2k urethane or it would not dry. But would the LHM hardner and the DT reducer work in a basecoat?

3: Another very strange fact. After the "cup" test I decided to do the same mixture, But this time spray on a old primed fender. The 1st spray was with nothing but a urethane reducer, 2nd was with the limco LHM hardener and urethane reducer. Third test was with DT reducer.
the 1st spray with nothing but urethane reducer air dried in 30 mins to a flat base coat type finish. The 2nd with the Limco LHM hardener dried in about 45 mins to a high gloss finish like a 2k urethane. The 3rd spray with the dt reducer air dried in 15-20 mins to a flat finish.

So what gives? Why would a paint dry to a High gloss finish with the LHM hardener? Does the LHM hardener have gloss in it? What about the other two combo's, Would a 2k urethane dry with nothing more then a reducer?? And why A flat finish???

Are they any other way to "test" what type of paint this is? At this point Im thinking out chucking it in the trash. But I love the color and would hate to toss it and it really be deltron at such a good deal.

BTW: I sprayed a urethane clear coat over all three test samples and all three of them looked realy nice.

Ive confronted the ebay seller 2 more times with my findings, And he claims it to still be deltron. He says he is 100% sure that he mixed it his self. And in no way could it be anything other then Deltron DBC. As Dr. House says "Everyone lies" But this guy has no reason to lie, He could just as easy said he had no clue or it was a no name paint and I would not have cared anymore then I do now. To his defense, He has very good ebay feedback for paint the same as this sold. I even emailed some of his past buyers and 2 out of 6 have emailed me back to say they believe it to be deltron. The others I have not talked back to yet. Also I have some left over deltron DBC from a job I just finished (with help from this forum, thanks by the way) And side by side they smell very close to the same, only one seems more strong.


What do you guys think? Should I toss it and count my low $18 loss or attempt to figure out for sure what it is and take the chance to spray a car?

Any input will be great!!

Thanks

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Old 12-24-2009, 04:46 AM
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sounds to me like that you got to much time on your hands. 18.00 and u are *****ing???? i can see if u paid 200.00 . put it on the shelf and use it sometime later. if u dont want it ill give u 20 for it plus shipping
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:31 AM
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It happens all the time at my paint store.They run out of labels.A pro can tell you what it is by smelling it. Bring it to your local paint store so you can get the proper reducer.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:33 AM
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Chuck it and eat the 18 bucks
If ya use it down the road it could caise ya hundreds in problems.
Lesson learned--- Stay away from EGay
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:42 AM
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This whole thing sounds bad from every angle. As a seller, you have got to be kidding me, selling a GALLON of automotive paint and shipping it for a lousy $18, HUH? I have sold thousands of items on eBay and there is no way I am going to spend the time it takes to package up something like that, the worry about it opening and being fined or tossed in jail for shipping it, guaranteeing it to the seller, all that for a lousy $18 bucks!

And buying paint on ebay, this is a joke right? What in the heck would make you buy paint that you have no warranty on, having no idea what is in that can. There could be a shot of trans fluid in there for all you know. There is NO WAY I would use that on ANYTHING.

Listen, you want cheap paint, go to your local paint store. They will likely have a pile of "mis matches" and what not over in the corner that they just about give away. You may not get the exact color you want but for cheap, there you go.

But honestly, there is no way in hell I would buy paint or ANYTHING else that could have been opened thru the mail to use on ANY project I have going.

A SEALED can of hardener, ok, maybe. But even then, I am sorry, you buy from a reputable store or supplier PERIOD.

Brian
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:13 PM
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It had nothing to do with buying cheap paint. I seen an auction that had no bids, about to sell for super cheap. I thought why not? Ive bought paint off ebay a few times. 90% of the time it was new paint someone bought for a project and never used. But in this case even if it was cheap ****ty no name paint im sure I could find some use for it. At the time all it showed was the top of the can open. I had no idea it would come without a label. For $18 it was well worth the gamble.

Reguardless of what I paid for it, I know paint. And this is not a real ****ty paint, Considering it mixes well with the deltron reduser AND the Limco hardner/reduser, And since it came with a limco lable AND a deltron quart lable. Im sure it is one of the two. Witch means I paid $18 for PPG deltron OR Limco 1-2-3 2k Urethane. I Dont think I trust that enough to paint a 66 corvette or anything like that. But I would still use the paint on other odd & ends. such as 4-link bars or control arms. Unless I find out it is deltron. But that I dout.

I don't want to take it to a paint store in fear of looking like an idiot.

deadbodyman: Can you explain a little more? Don't deltron and every other paint come with a label? I dident realize that paint stores put labels on cans, I thought that they use what ever mixing base add the color, mettalics or pearls then slap a mix label sticker on the can. Do they use fresh cans, then add everything, and then put on the correct label? Interesting...
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:50 PM
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Here's the scenario. The jobber took an order for a color, went to mix it for the customer, punched the code for the mix, went ahead, and mixed it. However, he neglected to check the year of the formula as car manufacturers recycle the color codes for different years.

The reason he removed the original label is he probably had written the original customers information on that label. Therefore, he removed that label, used whatever label was nearby inside out, and provided a quart label to properly identify the contents. This is normal procedure as DBM mentioned earlier.

The paint you purchased is fine and is what the seller told you it was.
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjperotti
The paint you purchased is fine and is what the seller told you it was.
Wowsy wowser, how in the world can you KNOW that? I have seen the damnest things go on in a store with guys mixing paint, you nor I have any idea what so ever what is in that can! It could be mashed potatoes for all we know.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 12-24-2009 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithkustoms
deadbodyman: Can you explain a little more? Don't deltron and every other paint come with a label? I dident realize that paint stores put labels on cans, I thought that they use what ever mixing base add the color, mettalics or pearls then slap a mix label sticker on the can. Do they use fresh cans, then add everything, and then put on the correct label? Interesting...
The cans come into the store BARE. Many manufacturers even buy cans from the same can manufacturer.

Think about it, the paint store may sell 5 or 6 different "lines" from single stage to basecoat to tinted primer and so on, how could they have pint, quart and gallon cans for ALL those lines? It would fill the store in cans if they did that. No, the cans are bare metal sitting in a box in the paint room. When they mix up a paint they take a label ouf of sleave that is on a shelf and peel the tape cover off and stick it on the can.

These days of course a lot of places are printing out the mix and paint name and what not on a large sticker that is then stuck to the can to save labels.

LOL, I remember doing a change over once where it was a "BIG A" store that originally started out selling "Rogers" paint. Sherwin Williams dropped the Rogers label and the Sherwin Williams rep came in and put Sherwin Williams labels on the Rogers cans that were on the mixing machine. I came in and changed them over to MARTIN_SENOUR when the store changed from a BIG A to NAPA. I never put labels over other ones, that is tacky to me. I removed the labels and put my M-S ones on (All products were EXACTLY the same made by the SAME manufacturer, Sherwin Williams). Funny thing was, a few were old cans with the Rogers and Sherwin Williams labels on them!

Brian
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Wowsy wowser, how in the world can you KNOW that? I have seen the damnest things go on in a store with guys mixing paint, you nor I have any idea what so ever what is in that can! It could be mashed potatoes for all we know.

Brian
I've had that happen on a few orders I placed with my jobber when they neglected to verify the year for the code. There are other reasons this could happen for example some one would place an order, the jobber went and mixed it up, and the customer never picked it up or canceled the order.

Mashed potatoes? What are you a clown? Mashed potatoes?
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:35 PM
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I wasn't talking about that part of your post, only the part I quoted in my post about the paint being "fine". You nor I have any idea if that paint is "fine".

What you are talking about is exactly right and what that "Mis-match" pile of paint at the paint store I mentioned is made from.

Brian
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:50 PM
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Brian, no offence. I doubt very much a jobber would sell a product online and miss identify it intentionally. If the poster had claimed he purchased a gallon of paint and the seller stated a guess as to what it was or that he didnít know then I would be suspicious of the contents.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:44 PM
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You have a bid for $20 bucks plus shipping, why don't you cut your loses and take the guys offer. Then, go out an buy some 'new' paint at $200 bucks a gallon and complain about that. Or, just go and spray the damn stuff on whatever you were going to use it for in the first place, 'because you liked the color'. If that's the way you pick out paint (by the way the color looks on a computer monitor) , it doesn't make any never mind what-so-ever! This post is just cannon fodder!

P.S. Brian, put your gun back in the holster and have a good Christmas.
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:26 PM
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Boy some people are very anal on this fourm. Amazing how many people get upset when someone else buys something. I should have said I paid $300 for it so no one gets jealous.


I had no idea shops deal with labels. I honestly thought that to mix a color the use a whole new can of mixing base. Other then yellow + red make orange & blue + red makes purple I no nothing about how they mix automotive paint. In other words I know nothing.

Anyone recommend a good book or website that has info on how they mixing automotive colors? It is something I would like to learn.

Thanks for all the help, I believe MARTINSR got this one right. It turned out to be metallic mashed potatoes, The good news is I have dinner now
Thanks I really did get a good laugh when I read that.

The seller has no reason to lie, He has very good feedback. 90% of them from other paint he has sold. The base does have a mix code on it. I checked it before i bought it. Its a honda color called "Fuji-blue pearl" Its a deep dark blue pearl. Very nice color. And from what I can tell it seems like good paint. Everything Ive done points to it being Deltron, except for the LHM hardener that made it dry to a gloss. If that never happened I would have had no reason to question his word. What gets me is if it was deltron it would not be gloss unless it was DBU. I asked if it was bdu and he was very firm with it being deltron dbc. But a 2k urethane would not dry with out a hardener. The only paint I can think of that drys to a gloss, and drys without a hardener is acrylic/syn enamel. And im pretty sure it is not either one of them.

I may use it down the road on something. I drive a 1994 corvette that I love, And I just had a son in sept and thought about buying him a barbie corvette powerwheels and paint it so it don't look like a girls car. That way he would have a car like his dad. (the barbie corvette is the only one made that looks like the C4 corvette or I would buy him a boy one) I found a cool website that shows how to wire a 12V car battery to a switch on the steering wheel to give the car a "Nitrous" button. I thought that would be cool until he gets old enough for something with a motor. I may use the paint for that. Beats rattle can paint. Who knows for $18 its not like im out anything.


Thanks for the $20 offer. I no interest in packing the paint back up and shipping it. I would rather let it set un-used in a cabinet before I took the time to ship it.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:33 PM
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i worked for auto paint store mixing PPG paint. everything is measured out in grams on a digital scale in new cans following the recipe for that color
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