How would you guys do this? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 06:33 PM
GMW GMW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 173
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How would you guys do this?

How would you guys go about finishing off these welds? Grind flat, fill with lead? Body filler?

I'm not sure which way I should go, or not go for that matter. I'll paint with trunk spatter paint when finished, so its not like they'll be painted clearcoated black or anything. But I don't want them to be the center of attention in the trunk either, if you know what I mean?

http://hobonation.com/%7Edump/userfi...72DCP_4580.jpg

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 09:29 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,005
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 705
Thanked 1,073 Times in 957 Posts
First I would like to ask why is Chevysler in the URL to that photo? Is it a Chrylser Hemi powered Chevy or something? You got my curiosity.

I would grind the welds down with a little three inch disc on an angle grinder (actually you would use about 25 of them ) and see what you have. I am sure there will need to be some filling or some "camouflage" to hide them.

On something like that I have an underseal gun at work that sprays a very rough texture, they would be just about invisible.

It depends on how far you want to go. If this car is YOURS, and you plan on a trunk mat that will cover it, heck just grind them and splater paint it. If you just can't stand the thought of that, grind them and spread a little filler over them, da it "flat" and prime it. Then splater paint it.

It really comes to how far YOU want to go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 03:57 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
? You are going to dip the shell for E-coat or it is already dipped?

If it's not dipped yet, spray a heavy coat of green rattle can Duplicolor self etch primer on the welds to slow down further rust and to act as a guide coat for grinding the welds. Grind and re-coat with etch primer. It's thin so it flows into the weld voids pretty well for a temporary seal.

For future welding, wire brush the area as soon as it's done and coat with etch primer or epoxy. New weld areas rust like crazy!

For trunks, I hand finger smear Fast and Firm seam sealer on the ground welds mainly to fill the voids. Then a coat of epoxy.
Then your choice, body filler and paint or spatter paint or my new favorite: rough sand all with 60 grit to bare steel (no e-coat?), truck bed liner spray all that doesn't show.

(martinsr, your going to groan when GMW tells you what he's building)

Last edited by red65mustang; 02-07-2005 at 06:11 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 06:50 AM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by MARTINSR

I would grind the welds down with a little three inch disc on an angle grinder (actually you would use about 25 of them )
I'm curious as to why you would recommend the 3" disc (I'm assuming its a 3" sanding disk not a 3" grinder disk, correct?) Do you build up less heat with the 3" disk? Would a regular 4 1/2" grinder (rigid disk) cause the metal to warp?

Dewey
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 08:11 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,005
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 705
Thanked 1,073 Times in 957 Posts
Dewey, LOL, I only said that because thats what I use every day. HOWEVER, I seldom have to do such a lot of welds. The 4" grinder may be better for this case.

But honestly, those little 3"grinders with a Roloc 36 grit and 50 grit and then a "Surface conditioning disc" work pretty darn good. The best part is lots of control. It is kinda slow, I agree, but you can see what is happening. I only use my 4" grinder when dressing welds on metal plate, tubing or something like that.


Red, I see no reason for the seam sealer when you are going to apply the filler over it anyway. Epoxy then filler over that would be the way to go IF that was what your plans where. don't you think?

The bed liner, THAT is the stuff, good idea.

Now, on late model collision repairs, I do another thing all together. If you guys open the trunk of your daily driver Honda or what ever (come on now, I know you have one ) look at the seam sealer and how it is applied. They put ONE BIG bead of sealer and then ONE swipe of a "brush" of some kind over it, that is it. Not very attractive, but it works.

When I splice floors in collision repairs (we do a lot of rear enders here at ground zero right off the Nimitz freeway in SF bay) I will look for a strategic splice point, for safety and "where it looks like the factory would have spliced it, if they had spliced it". That is the trick to doing non stock splicing, if the factory WOULD have made that part in two pieces, "where would they have spliced it"?

I have had guys ask "Why the heck didn't you go right straight across there"? Then after it is all done they understand, it looks stock.

So, after it is welded and primed, I put a bead of seam sealer (2K) and brush it "flat" with one swipe of the brush. It looks just like the sealer that is there all over the trunk area just like the factory would have "If they had wanted a splice there".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 03:48 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
martinsr, cboy,

Re-worded?

I put a dab of seam sealer on my finger tip and rub it into and fill the voids/cracks/pinholes in the welds. Don't try to "cover" the welds, just fill them to the top .
Once cured, a quick swipe with 80 grit to clean the surface, apply epoxy (to the whole panel).
LOL, maybe we should start a new thread...which is better to fill a weld void or pin hole, plastic or putty?

Factory "brushed" seams, closest I've found is 3M 08656 grey brushable seam sealer, allow a week for cure before any top coat, full of solvents.
........................................
cboy,

I use a 4-1/2" electric grinder to smooth welds, you do want to keep jumping around to different spots to reduce heat build up.

Nice part of the 3" martinsr uses is it can get into tighter corners radii so don't throw away your worn down 4-1/2's
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 07:39 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,005
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 705
Thanked 1,073 Times in 957 Posts
Red, that "brushable" seam sealer is not what I was talking about at all. I use a two componant (needs a special gun) just like a panel adhesive. It cures to paint in only about fifteen minutes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2005, 08:29 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: martinsr, cboy,

Quote:
Originally posted by red65mustang
I put a dab of seam sealer on my finger tip and rub it into and fill the voids/cracks/pinholes in the welds.
Is what you are using actually a product called "seam sealer" and is it made specifically to apply over the voids in welds? Is it a one part (no hardener or catalyst) paste of some sort. You mention the 3M 08656 later - is that a different thing yet?

I just figured I'd grind down the welds in my sheet metal work and then spray a few thick coats of fill/primer. But if there is something better to you on the welds first I should probably do that.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2005, 04:02 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
martinsr, cboy,

Re-worded: closest to ORIGINAL brushed on seam sealer is the 3M 08656. If it's a restoration, not a street rod=3M. Do agree the (Fusor) 2k is much better and looks better.

From GMW's pic', that's the LS-6 he owns? Don't know if he wants restoration correct or best fix.
.................................................. .....
cboy,
there are probably 100 threads on different methods for dressing welds on this site. I use about 10 methods depending on the area of the car. For butt welded panels in a trunk the method I use is:

As soon as it's welded, wire wheel both sides of the weld and 6" of the sheet, spray both sides with the Duplicolor etch primer, wait a full day for the etch to go neutral, grind the welds, use 3M Fast and Firm seam sealer to fill the voids and seal the pin holes on both sides, wait a day, 80 grit the etch sheet and weld area, epoxy all. Then finish as you want, filler/primer/paint=invisible, bedliner=durable/rust proof/easy to touch up.

I like the Fast and Firm because it is about the consistance of good bathtub caulk, you can really work into the welds with you finger tip. Want it to "flow", mix in some urathane reducer.

Some panels it's easier to sand and epoxy the panel then strip the areas to be welded. Constantly wet panel, 36 grit and short hair duraglas (fiberglass) then epoxy. Point is, you gotta do what the area requires, there is no one answer/method for all......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2005, 06:54 AM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,915
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: martinsr, cboy,

Quote:
Originally posted by red65mustang

cboy,
there are probably 100 threads on different methods for dressing welds on this site. [SNIP] Point is, you gotta do what the area requires, there is no one answer/method for all......
I think I need to slap myself a good one on the wrist. That's one of my biggest pet peeve...guys who don't use the SEARCH function before they fire off a question. Sorry 'bout that everybody. My bad.

And I was afraid you'd say that last part...
"Point is, you gotta do what the area requires, there is no one answer/method for all".... My problem is I don't have your guys' experience at this sheet metal work so I'll be shooting in the dark about picking a good approach. The nice thing is my project will be all brand new 18 gauge - no patching up to old or rusted body panels. So that should make things a little easier.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips. I'll be trying them out.

Dewey
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2005, 08:14 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,005
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 705
Thanked 1,073 Times in 957 Posts
Red, you and I will have to part ways on the seam sealer in the welds. That "Fast and Firm" is not designed to be "surfaced" or sanded as far as I remember (though I admit I haven't used it in years). And, I see no reason to apply it to be bare metal (or a rattle can primer, that is what you are refering to with the "Duplicolor" right?) when you could epoxy prime that welded area to fully protect it, THEN apply something to "fill the voids".

Dewey, I find nothing wrong what so ever with asking a question that has been discussed in 100s of threads and I am sure Red didn't mean that it is wrong. Honestly, why search thousands of posts for one simple answer someone could tell you here. Besides, a lot of people are reading this for the information and may not even "know" what to look for if they were to do a search. Some subjects should be brought up again and again anyway to get new ideas.
Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2005, 07:00 PM
adtkart@aol.com
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 3,220
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
First off, there are probably a million different opinions on the correct way to finish that project. Most of the cars that I work on are either BMW, Honda, or VW. The vehicle owners of the German cars are very picky about the seams looking exactly like factory. I personally grind the welds prior to applying any sealer or etch primer. I do not try to grind them completely flat, as that can cut into the original metal, thinning it. I then apply etch primer and some type of seam sealer. Type depending on the location and appearance required.

As for the part about doing a search. That would apply to cases like the question that is ask constantly about the cost of a paint job and such. This type of question can generate numerous types of opinions depending on experience available and the job being done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2005, 08:12 PM
GMW GMW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 173
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the discussion regarding different methods. Honestly, I haven't exactly decided which method I'll go with yet.

As for the car, its a true 1965 Chevelle Malibu SS. I owned it in 1974 & 1975 when in high school. I sold it in 1976. 18 months ago I found it again (still with 1976 plates on it!) and bought it on the spot. I'm redoing it from the ground up. It had been setting outside, not running, for the last twenty-nine years.

Originally it was a 327, 375 HP, 4 speed, 12 bolt (4.88). Its been a street/drag car its entire life. I'm going with modern tires, wheels, suspension, BBC, 6 speed tremek, same 12 bolt.

As far as Chevysler, its a screen name I use on other boards, etc. It stems from two other vehicles I own, a 1997 Camaro Z28 and a 2003 Dodge ram Hemi powered quad cab 4x4.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2005, 10:28 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,005
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 705
Thanked 1,073 Times in 957 Posts
thought that trunk looked familer, I have a 65 Gran Sport.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2005, 03:43 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
martinsr, cboy,

It is Duplicolor "Self-Etching" Primer" (green letters on can), DAP 1690, $5?, not just laquer primer. Marhyde makes one also.

Reasons for the rattle can etch primer before epoxy:

Neutralize and etch the welds, "grabs" in the craters and voids, (epoxy doesn't stick well to burned bare steel and melted weld wire in the craters and pin holes).
Helps hold and keep the sheet steel from micro rusting (FL humidity)
Thinner than epoxy so it coats smaller pin holes and voids
Guide coat to grind the welds and easy to sand guide coat sheet steel prep for epoxy
No gun clean up, more convenient, less cost/good benefit

Logic of the seam sealer step before epoxy is to get a more flat surface to apply a (more) correct mil thickness of epoxy.
The seam sealer will "grab" and seal any bare void areas the etch didn't reach and "grab" the etch as well
Your not sanding the sealer, it shrinks into the craters as it cures. Epoxy does stick well to Fast and Firm seam sealer but I do 80 grit the surface first.

(You can 400 grit sand Fast and Firm to smooth (ex:drip rail?) if you need to but using reducer to blend and smooth you won't need to?)


......................................
cboy,
Didn't mean "use the search!!!", meant, everybody does have a different approach/method.....Problem: welding heat burns the steel, makes it very rust prone....Objective: make a absolute oxygen and moisture and dirt barrier....Method: ??? (don't weld?, use 2k panel adhesive?)

The 3M brushable is a very heavy duty, thick, coarse, slow to cure, caulk. Good (?) for packing between panel gaps (ex:outer wheel housing/qtr panel wheel well).

If you want to use some filler primer, I would epoxy first, epoxy is a great oxygen/moisture barrier.

Fast and Firm 08505 is about $10, 10oz normal caulk tube. The 2 part gun is about $40 and the caulk is $$$$ but it is fantastic for grab and life

(I'm always out of Fast and Firm....need to stop using it on sinks, gutters, counter tops, etc., around the house.....but it is so nice to work with....and grabs so good....)

Last edited by red65mustang; 02-09-2005 at 04:30 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.