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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 06:19 AM
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oh great , now we're going to bring back up those junkie mopars painted with a mitten and trimcad . this has gotten to be the problem with this site. somebody asks a question , several pro's try to give advise, then the stupid crap starts by one of the " i watched them paint a car once" pro's . red's right . we need another section for "doing it wrong " and leave this one for folks who actually care enough to want to do it right. only thing to do with a rustolem car is wipe it down with lemon pledge and dont ever think about repainting it.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 06:56 AM
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OK...Heres my opinion.....not on the Rustoleum issue, but on the tone of this thread........You may have noticed that this kid has not posted back.........He has probably gone somewhere else.

Maybe, the kid can't afford to strip his car and apply a high dollar paint job. Maybe, the car isn't worth it, I don't know...........

Telling him that Rustoleum and products like it are not good quality are fine........but I think being sarcastic and throwing high dollar solutions at him was not the way to go about giving advise.
What I would have said that although Rustoleum is not the best thing to do, you could touch up the bad spots and live with it until such time that you could afford better.

I just think that this thread was handled badly..........my opinion.......You can bash me if you like....I'm used to it.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 07:44 AM
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Poncho, I have to agree with you for the most part and I suppose I am probably guiltier than most of the others but the fact is Rustoleum is such a bad choice offering advice on how to salvage a failed job (as all of them will) only lends legitimacy to a ridiculous process. When I saw the first post my first thought was "here we go again!" and it seems that there is more of this sort of thing all the time so is that where we are headed? What would happen if someone went over to the engine section and asked about using some kind of cardboard for engine gaskets? That would make as much sense as using Rustoleum to paint the body, I mean it could be argued that it is cheap and could work, maybe, for a while anyway? As far as only offering high dollar solutions there is tons of advice here on using economy, or even downright cheap, paints but these are automotive paints at least and are the least expensive way to paint without actually making the problem worse. Those danged stupid magazines and TV shows have caused a lot of harm and have caused some guys to screw up royally because no one told them any different but I suppose you right there probably is a better way to go about doing that.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by poncho62
OK...Heres my opinion.....not on the Rustoleum issue, but on the tone of this thread........You may have noticed that this kid has not posted back.........He has probably gone somewhere else.

Maybe, the kid can't afford to strip his car and apply a high dollar paint job. Maybe, the car isn't worth it, I don't know...........

Telling him that Rustoleum and products like it are not good quality are fine........but I think being sarcastic and throwing high dollar solutions at him was not the way to go about giving advise.
What I would have said that although Rustoleum is not the best thing to do, you could touch up the bad spots and live with it until such time that you could afford better.

I just think that this thread was handled badly..........my opinion.......You can bash me if you like....I'm used to it.

I wont bash you Ponch..we all have our opinions. I understand that maybe he cant afford to fix his car with a "high-dollar"job but there are other alternatives...not rustoleum of course.To tell this guy how to fix rustoleum on an automobile is a kinda oxymoron I think. IMHO there is no correct way to fix that stuff on a car because it should not be there in the first place. And to even try to tell him how to fix it would be sending a message to people that this works and is acceptable. I don't think any of these rust-o-only paint guy will ever understand till they decide to put some car paint (even the cheapest car paint) on top of that stuff. I have turned down paint job because the customer thought they were helping by putting this stuff on till they could get it painted. I don't think we chased him away. I think he didn't like our ways to fix the problem. Also if one would shop around there are cheap catalyzed automotive paints that will last pretty good and although they might be a tad(but not much more) more money,would not cause grief down the road for a person to do a repaint. That is just my opinion of course.

The TV and magazine have turn this hobby into a sort of free-for-all where the incorrect is become the norm(kinda like the whole darn world these days) I have been asked about the stupid 100 dollar paint job seen in one magazine and if we do it at our shop so many times it not even funny.

Anyway enough of my ranting. If somebody want to see how to fix rust-o-leum on a car maybe they need to call a rustoleum rep. I don't know the correct way to fix an incorrect paint job like that unless there is some kind of stripper involved. JMO Tim
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:10 AM
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Personally, I would have helped him with that, but also suggested that the Rustoleum route is not the best way.........Maybe, I am just becoming too PC in my old age, but I am seeing this quite a bit lately where people are ganging up on a person and frustrating them into not wanting to post anymore.........

Just seems to me, that we chased the guy away with the "your paint is crap attitude".........After all, he said he did get it that way, was just looking for ways to touch it up, I believe........I know there are better alternatives......The paint I sued on my truck was a single stage acrylic enamel that was under $150 with reducer and hardener.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by poncho62
Personally, I would have helped him with that, but also suggested that the Rustoleum route is not the best way.........Maybe, I am just becoming too PC in my old age, but I am seeing this quite a bit lately where people are ganging up on a person and frustrating them into not wanting to post anymore.........

Just seems to me, that we chased the guy away with the "your paint is crap attitude".........After all, he said he did get it that way, was just looking for ways to touch it up, I believe........I know there are better alternatives......The paint I sued on my truck was a single stage acrylic enamel that was under $150 with reducer and hardener.

I dont know how to help fix that stuff if it can be fixed at all. But, I do see where your going with this and I understand your thinking pretty good. And I think you maybe correct about the ganging up thing but i dont think any of us want to see this guy go and mess his car up. Maybe the way you stated about helping him, but letting him know it wasn't not advisable to do that,is something that shoulda happened. It just not the correct way to paint a car. Tim

Last edited by lets cut it up; 06-11-2008 at 09:56 AM.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:42 AM
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My first reply may have sounded a bit arrogant ("you are kidding maybe?) but for crying out loud man the guy was asking if he could maybe clear coat a simi-flat Rustoleum paint job that had, as he put it "water marks" in it! I had to wonder, considering the other Rusto threads, if he was not just trying to start something although I am certain now that the guy was sincere. I think most of us acknowledged the fact someone else had painted this thing so no one was knocking this guys choice of methods and in fact we even commented on his car being a nice ride that needed better than a cheapo paint job. Just recently (I mentioned this before in another thread) on a Mustang forum I followed, but did not participate in, a discussion on the $100 Rustoleum paint job and it was simply unbelievable how many of those guys were all for it! A couple of the more sensible ones spoke up and tried to talk some sense but they got clobbered! Some of the things that came up and was accepted as a good idea was nothing short of stupid but these guys were all for it and no doubt this crap will wind up on some decent cars because of it. If we just try to be polite and brush this off as that's all they can afford and OK lets help them with it as much as we can then before long that's all we will be talking about here. I hate to be crass about this but the fact is if someone can not afford the few dollars price difference between economy paint and Rustoleum they are in the wrong hobby! The difference in price between crap paints and AE is about the price of a tank of gas in some cases and it is just a cold hard fact if they can't afford that they simply can't afford to paint, besides in the vast majority of cases it is not a matter of can't but simply not willing to.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62
Personally, I would have helped him with that, but also suggested that the Rustoleum route is not the best way.........Maybe, I am just becoming too PC in my old age, but I am seeing this quite a bit lately where people are ganging up on a person and frustrating them into not wanting to post anymore.........

Just seems to me, that we chased the guy away with the "your paint is crap attitude".........After all, he said he did get it that way, was just looking for ways to touch it up, I believe........I know there are better alternatives......The paint I sued on my truck was a single stage acrylic enamel that was under $150 with reducer and hardener.

I agree completely.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:26 AM
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As an avid visitor to this forum and non-painter I read these threads with much enthusiasm and I have read almost all of them. In almost all of the threads there has been the same 5 or 6 guys that do the majority of posts who get really annoyed when people post about Rustoleum or any form of alternative painting for that matter. This subject tends to bring out the worst in them and even the so called professionals canít seem to help themselves. I would think 1 or 2 posts along the lines of ---

ď most of the pros here donít recommend the use of this paint for lawn furniture let alone your car, we feel it has no use whatsoever etc. , etcĒ

post some links to old threads, maybe add your experience and leave it at that. Multiple posts by the same people, and then calling people idiots, in my view just encourages debate and arguing and legitimizes the paint more to people who donít know anything and come here for help. Only about 4 posts in this thread are by people supporting itís use the rest are by the usual guys ĎGanging upí (as poncho said) on other people. After the first couple of posts if you havenít discouraged the use you are not going to.

By the way unless you known EVERYTHING about a subject you shouldnít be telling people that spraying is the only way to go , rolling and tipping paint is a very well known way of applying paint (NOT rustoleum) and is used frequently in the marine industry and has been for years. There is no secret to it and there are paints that have been developed specifically for this technique -- 2 part polyurethanes and one part paints. Many of the paint jobs I have seen would rival those done by spraying. They are mostly done by owners of sailboats who are just as stingy as any hotrodder. (sailboaters think that because the wind is free, everything should be!!) I am surprised that many people here who I have come to respect as incredibly resourceful seem to be very narrow minded about this.

Well done Poncho for moderating a difficult subject.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 12:17 PM
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By the way unless you known EVERYTHING about a subject you shouldn�t be telling people that spraying is the only way to go , rolling and tipping paint is a very well known way of applying paint (NOT rustoleum) and is used frequently in the marine industry and has been for years. There is no secret to it and there are paints that have been developed specifically for this technique -- 2 part polyurethanes and one part paints. Many of the paint jobs I have seen would rival those done by spraying. They are mostly done by owners of sailboats who are just as stingy as any hotrodder. (sailboaters think that because the wind is free, everything should be!!) I am surprised that many people here who I have come to respect as incredibly resourceful seem to be very narrow minded about this.

.
I don't know everything and i don't claim to know everything. I also didn't say you have to spray everything either. I have bushed on paint before and even rolled it and then sanded it and buffed it out to fix chips and such.

The reason I don't condone rustoleum or any other paint like it is because It is not designed for automotive application. It is not a catalyzed system that cures all the way through. If you try to sand it it will not truly feather edge for a repair. If you prime over it with a automotive grade primer it soften up and some times even lifts. if you try to paint over it you get the same results as priming. It just doesn't work...If it did auto paint store would be pushing it. Brushing, tipping, rolling, and spraying this type of paint is not a good idea. I think anybody on this thread has put down the method of application unless I missed something, I know i was simply trying to say rustoleum is a no no on a car because it is.


I doesn't ruffle my feathers when some body asked about this subject , it is when they don't listen to people who clearly know there business in this subject and come asking how to fix something that never should have been done. The original poster was asking how to fix his car that already has this type of paint on it. Well the answer is there is no right way to do it . I don't feel comfortable trying tell somebody the right way to do something when they not using the correct products..ie..automotive paint and materials-you pick the brand. But that is just me.


Like I said in a previous post maybe we did gang up on the guy, maybe we could have helped him but let him know the problems....maybe. but I thought this place was to help people do stuff correct and not help then to have problems. If I am about to do something and I ask a question and am told it wont work because...I will do more research on the subject and chances are I wont do it the way I was thinking of. Anyway the moral of this is whether you spray rustoleum, brush it or roll it on a car , it is BAD BAD BAD. you wont be able to paint over it without removing it all off.....ALL OF IT.

besides it is so much more work to get that stuff to look good any way, why not just use the right stuff in the first place.


Whew...Guys are we beating a dead horse or what?

always remember this is Just My Opinions,Tim

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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 12:34 PM
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I am a new guy here...so perhaps I speak out of turn

I just don't ever get the point of chasing a kid away that obviously doesn't know about what we do.
Yes..that Rusto isn't something I'd ever use..but he Bought It That Way..

I encourage every young kid..my son..his friends..and show them a better way from experience......as an old hot rodder. I learned from guys that taught me..and corrected those kid ideas I "knew" years ago.

If we don't teach..and encourage..we just send them over to the quick..cheap.."old skoolz" nonsense that pretends to imitate our life in a weird caricature that none of us remember.

Just another old guy's opinion..I want to see our life/hobby continue..

We lived it..we need to teach it..

The truth of the advice is often unheard by the tone..
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:30 PM
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I think the reason most of the pros don't speak up about this subject is that the very concept of using Rustoleum is so ridiculous that the only sensible answer would be to strip it and repaint. Every time this comes up, whether the pros weigh in or not, someone will jump in and start defending this non-sense and it just goes downhill from there. As for myself I suppose I am one of the guilty for jumping in every time this subject comes up but I used that crap for 30 years to paint rebuilt equipment with and I KNOW what will happen if you paint a car with it. Also I would really hate to see the quality of the info we have had here degrade into the ridiculous BS like at that other board I mentioned earlier. How long will it be before there is a discussion on whether turpentine would be better than mineral spirits for thinning Rustoleum? I have been laid up with this bad back for the last few weeks and I guess I just have too much time on my hands so maybe I will just stay out of it.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 01:38 PM
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Oldred, I do this for a living and although I dont and well never know everything I get quite frustrated at times situations like this arise and then the ones who try to give advise becomes the bad guys. This is why i don't reply a whole lot unless I feel somebody is about to mess up bad. I have said all I can say other then if gas wasn't so expensive that would be better to thin the stuff with that way if you wanted to you could toss a match on the paint job and have a flame job too. I am going to also stay out of this now. This is now going nowhere. JMO Tim

Last edited by lets cut it up; 06-11-2008 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:16 PM
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Tim

I think you have missed the point. I am not disagreeing with the content of the advice, I agree with the 'rustoleum is bad' part. I was just pointing out the level of anger that comes to the surface when this subject comes up is enough to scare away any newcomer. I can't understand why the advice isn't more civil. You don't have to keep replying when someone posts a few more lines in support of this paint, if you have already posted your objection it is unlikely 10 more posts are going to convince these people otherwise, in fact it might do the opposite!!

Last edited by scrimshaw; 06-11-2008 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:37 PM
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Don't hammer the kid, he's just asking what to do. The photo of the car looks OK. All the responses about Rust-O-Leum being inappropriate are totally correct. It's not auto paint. However, it'll last quite awhile if not neglected. If it's already neglected, you may be in for a shock...

If the paint isn't peeling or lifting, just wash it, and maybe try going over the whole thing with 4-0 steel wool VERY LIGHTLY. Eventually, if you're gonna keep the car, it does hafta come off completely, but you may be able to get a couple of years of daily driver use out of it as is.

If it is peeling, or look so bad you can't live with the bad spots, just get a spray bomb of the same stuff, dust a VERY light coat on, and rub the whole thing down with Murphy's Oil Soap. Don't laugh, it'll make it sorta shiney, it degrades quickly so when you want to (and you WILL someday) strip the paint and do it right, it's not gonna mess anything up.

Just enjoy the car as is, it's WAY better than MY first car!

Brian
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