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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 11:47 AM
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OK, for the umpteenth time Rustoleum is an extremely poor quality paint that is oil based and made from cheap materials that has no UV inhibitors and will break down in sunlight. It is thinned with a heavy slow drying solvent that will continue to evaporate for weeks or months causing the paint to shrink and lose any gloss it might have. The shrinkage and loss of gloss however are minor problems compared to the fact that the paint will oxidize rapidly and break down from UV rays. And you are wrong about painting equipment as compared to painting a car, the paint has no idea what it is on and the results will be the same. Most of this stuff was sandblasted to bare metal and then sprayed with primer before being reassembled then after assembly it was painted, usually sprayed but sometimes brushed, and then left outside until it either was sold or picked up by the owner. Any that stayed any length of time would fade badly in a short time and after a few months (sometimes just a few weeks if it was in the summer) the paint would oxidize so badly you could take your hand and wipe off a very fine dust from the oxidized paint. You asked to explain without saying it is just @%&$ing crap but there is no better way to describe it because that is just what it is! The bottom line is if you paint your car with this stuff it will fade, oxidize and most likely eventually peel if you leave it in the sun. This forum is about paint and body but Rustoleum is NOT auto paint, there simply is no correct way to use it for this purpose and when it is used it will eventually end in disaster so any discussion about it can be easily answered, just don't do it! If you want to discuss a WORKABLE way to paint a car cheap then fine bring it up and ask anything you want and there will be tons of advice on how to do that but don't waste everyones' time by arguing with professional painters who know what they are talking about.

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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko
I will be the first to admit I know pretty much nothing about paint.

I am not looking for a show winner. I understand that if i decide to do a high end paint job I will have to strip it down to bare metal. I am ok with that.

If one of the experienced guys that have been doing this for years could break down the different types of paints and primers and what they were designed to do I would appreciate it. I would also like to hear from anyone who has actually used a certain type of paint and had bad experiences (it would be great if you could explain why) Painting a piece of equipment out in the field with a spray can and no prep may not give the best results.

I am looking for advice, not an argument.

thanks

Craig


It would take pages to do everything you are asking but all of that info is here if you look for it. The knowledge base and tech articles are a great place to start and you will have the benefit of the knowledge of some of the best painters in the world and it won't cost you a dime. If you get confused by all that info, easy for anyone to do, or just can't find what you are looking for then post a question and you will get answers from some of the best in the business. I would suggest you search out the different kinds of paints, BC/CC, Single Stage Urethane and even the AE paints and read up on them to learn some of the pros and cons of each then you can make up your mind what will be best for you. Most of us fully understand about cost and that not everyone can afford top of the line paint and the point we have been trying to make is that using Rustoleum, Dupli-Color lacquer, etc is a losing proposition and there are better more permanent ways of doing this at little or no more cost, why is that so hard to understand? I can answer my own question on that one, Those damned stupid magazines and TV shows! That don't give a hoot about what happens to your car all they are trying to do is sell magazines and TV ads so they will tell you ANYTHING to accomplish that end. It may take a while to learn about proper paints and methods but it is worth it and best of all you can do it, right here, the RIGHT way and again it won't cost you a darn thing! Forget about that Rustoleum and come back here for suggestions on how to do a paint job that suits your particular situation so do that search on different materials and then ask for help with doing it right (and economically) and I think you will get a totally different response!
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 12:10 PM
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Oldred,

So what would you recommend to paint my vehicle with that will last a couple years, is simple to apply, and the most economical?
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 02:30 PM
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take it to maco
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko
So what would you recommend to paint my vehicle with that will last a couple years, is simple to apply, and the most economical?

We would have to have info on what you are painting, the condition, facilities available, etc. Seriously do that search on paints and then what is suggested will be a lot more understandable, it is a lot easier to get answers to specific questions about a problem you might have than to go over the whole process step by step. As I said there is a LOT to learn but it is worth every minute you spend on it and you will not regret doing so, you obviously have an interest or you would not be here. The economy grade single stage paints are far better than anything you can get at Wal-Mart, they won't break the bank and if you pay attention to detail, learn (and heed!) the proper way to prep the car you can have a decent paint that will not only look good but last a while plus it can be repaired or repainted later without having to strip it. You will also learn a very valuable skill that will be worth more to you than you might imagine so if you are totally new to this you do have a way to go first but as the old saying goes "you must learn to walk before you can run" so let the journey begin!
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 04:43 PM
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any of the base line paints. DuPont Omni, Nason paint... I prefer PPG Delstar acrylic enamel for a cheaper paint tho I spent $400 on supplies with that line of paint. it was $250 somthing a gallon for my custom color. here is a cheaper paint company ( not a main-stream brand ) http://www.kirkerautomotive.com/html/our_products.html

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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
This is what happens when crap paints like Rustoleum are used to paint cars. You have two choices, repaint with Rustoleum or remove that junk completely and do it right with real auto paint. If you redo it with the Rustoleum you will end up right back in the same place in a very short time so that is a poor option. What you have now is a coating (I hesitate to call Rustoleum "paint") that has oxidized and been destroyed by UV from sunlight and anything you put on top of it will fail also, that is even if you can get on there without the Rustoleum lifting.


IMO a fairly rare ride like that deserves a hell of a lot better than a coat of Rustoleum and whoever did that to that car should have his butt kicked for doing it!
Yes in a lot of cases this would the best practice.
But I can tell you this, I have used Rustoelum rusty metal primer cut with acrylic enamel reducer, shot onto to clean stripped bare metal, as a pre-kote base primer. This is not my own idea, but came froma High End Resto shop in Atlanta Ga, bet your surprised.
I have done the following , I have used all fibreglass, and regular fillers over the Rusty metal primers, with NO ISSUES.
I have shot on epoxy primer, I have shot on 2k Urethane primer/surfacers, I have shot on automotive acryclic enamels, urethane paints, again NO ISSUES.
A friend in Macon Georgia even shoots on lacquer based primer/surfacer, with NO ISSUES, once the Rustoleum is fully cured about 3 weeks, he also shoots urethane paint over this, again with NO ISSUES.
I also personally know the guy on Moparts.com, that started the roller painting craze, his VW was painted with Tremclad (Canadas rustoleum), in 1999, it hasn't peeled off, faded minimally. In fairness he waxes it twice per year, it stays in the garage when not being driven, he has put on 80000 miles on the car since 1999, so it's being driven and used outdoors.
So maybe for some guys who are broke or on serious budget constraints, this might not be a bad option.
I do not believe for a second you need to strip off Rustoleum, if it has bonded and cured to the substrate.
I also know individuals that have had BC/CC shot over Rustoleum, to date the paint has not fallen off...........MC
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
OK, for the umpteenth time Rustoleum is an extremely poor quality paint that is oil based and made from cheap materials that has no UV inhibitors and will break down in sunlight. It is thinned with a heavy slow drying solvent that will continue to evaporate for weeks or months causing the paint to shrink and lose any gloss it might have. The shrinkage and loss of gloss however are minor problems compared to the fact that the paint will oxidize rapidly and break down from UV rays. And you are wrong about painting equipment as compared to painting a car, the paint has no idea what it is on and the results will be the same. Most of this stuff was sandblasted to bare metal and then sprayed with primer before being reassembled then after assembly it was painted, usually sprayed but sometimes brushed, and then left outside until it either was sold or picked up by the owner. Any that stayed any length of time would fade badly in a short time and after a few months (sometimes just a few weeks if it was in the summer) the paint would oxidize so badly you could take your hand and wipe off a very fine dust from the oxidized paint. You asked to explain without saying it is just @%&$ing crap but there is no better way to describe it because that is just what it is! The bottom line is if you paint your car with this stuff it will fade, oxidize and most likely eventually peel if you leave it in the sun. This forum is about paint and body but Rustoleum is NOT auto paint, there simply is no correct way to use it for this purpose and when it is used it will eventually end in disaster so any discussion about it can be easily answered, just don't do it! If you want to discuss a WORKABLE way to paint a car cheap then fine bring it up and ask anything you want and there will be tons of advice on how to do that but don't waste everyones' time by arguing with professional painters who know what they are talking about.
Reduce with acrylic enamel reducer, and acrylic enamel hardener. Mixing ratio 8-4-1 approximately.
I think you will find the fading, shine and depth much better than straight rusto paint.
Old Red, lets face it, Rustoleum is not really designed for cars, but it can be used on frmaes, inner fenders machinery, implements etc.
If you add these items, it will retain it's gloss way better.
I have used the Rusto Pint mixed with the above items, shines, and hardens up like crazy, retains its gloss 100% better.........MC
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:24 AM
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and you wonder why so many painters have left here old red . absolutely unbelievable.
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Old 01-30-2009, 10:25 AM
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An old Stude painted with XO rust paint, reduced with acrylic enamel reducer and hardener addde. It was done by a retired bodyman, for less than $50.00 for paint material.......MC
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by shine
and you wonder why so many painters have left here old red . absolutely unbelievable.
Why, is this, cuz were too fffin dumb to learn from you pros, Even on autobody 101 they are willing to listen to different ideas, you guys are just too professional for me.
I also use real autobody paints etc, but there are alternatives , and excpetions for certain jobs and cases..........
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:41 AM
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i've been in the custom automotive business for over 40 years and know of not one painter that would even consider it. the cheapest urethane out there is far superior to oil based paint and most likely less expense . see ya red .
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:45 AM
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First off....we on this forum do NOT call each other "FFFin dumb"......If you can't argue a point without name calling, go away........

I have painted vehicles with Tremclad (Rustoleum)....They were just old trucks that I used to beat around in the winter with.......They faded after a few months, which I didn't really care about, as I just wanted them to look decent for a couple of years........If that is the "Exception" or "special case" you speak of....fine......but, in my opinion, thats about it

I painted my 51 pivckup about 7 years ago with a cheap one stage enamel...cost about $150 with hardener and reducer....It still shines well and is holding up.....That's the route I would recommend.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
i've been in the custom automotive business for over 40 years and know of not one painter that would even consider it. the cheapest urethane out there is far superior to oil based paint and most likely less expense . see ya red .
I also use 2 k Urethane primers, have shot them over rusty metal primer too. I agree with you the newer technology is better, has a better shine, lasts longer breaks down less in the sun.
You state you have been in the business over 40 years, so you know what using enamel paint, and lacquer systems are like.
But do not discount what I am telling you from my own personal experience only, unless you have personally tried it yourself.
I do not mind constructive criticism, but can't stand people that want to be negative and put something down, when they have not tired something for themselves.( Contempt Prior to Investigation)
I am not talking about Rustoleum being sprayed onto machinery 20 years ago using mineral spirits, the newer formulas are a lot better in the sun, but sun in the south is very strong compared to up north here.
I am talkng about using elcheapo rust paint, doctored up with reducers, and hardners to be used on frames, machinery, tractors, etc, not show cars, not trailer queens. Not Gene Winfield super custom cars, not Chip Fooses, vehicles, or even a modern day repair to a plain old American made modern car.........
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2009, 11:27 AM
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Shine this guy very obviously came here to start a rukus and nothing more and his knowledge of paint, or obvious lack of, is apparent so best just let him rant on. Someone else said it perfectly,

"Never wrestle with a pig you will both get dirty but the pig loves it!"
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