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Old 09-28-2009, 10:37 PM
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Howards Cams

Does anyone know where I can find cam cards or cam timing specs on Howards Cams? All I can find is lift, dur, and LSA. I have no idea when the valves open and close etc. The problem is that I work hours that do not allow me to call their tech support. They're closed by the time i get home. Anyone have any info?

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Old 09-29-2009, 12:17 AM
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Makes ya nuts, doesn't it? I won't buy their cams. There are other manufacturers who publish all the dope on their cams and I can make a good choice before I ever call the tech line to verify.
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:44 AM
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You can easily calculate the valve events using a calculator.
with .050" duration and LSA. If it really matters to you, you are going to degree a cam in on install and adjust the cam phasing accordingly anyway.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
You can easily calculate the valve events using a calculator.
with .050" duration and LSA. If it really matters to you, you are going to degree a cam in on install and adjust the cam phasing accordingly anyway.

I know, but I want to find the actual intake valve closing at .050 before I buy the cam. I need an early closing intake, say about 34* to 35*, with a 108* LSA. I found a couple of cams that have the specs I'm looking for but don't know the valve timing events.

I hear ya, techinspector1, I'm about to go with the Crower or Isky that I found.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:46 AM
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I like Isky, but as already mentioned, calculating the valve events isn't taht hard, use your LSA to find your ECL off your ICL and you're almost done- assuming symmetrical lobes.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg T
I know, but I want to find the actual intake valve closing at .050 before I buy the cam. I need an early closing intake, say about 34* to 35*, with a 108* LSA. I found a couple of cams that have the specs I'm looking for but don't know the valve timing events.

I hear ya, techinspector1, I'm about to go with the Crower or Isky that I found.
Contact Crower,they can grind most cams with the LSA you want if you don't find an off the shelf offering.Also Engle Cams will do that for you too.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB
Contact Crower,they can grind most cams with the LSA you want if you don't find an off the shelf offering.Also Engle Cams will do that for you too.

Just about any of them will do that for you- except Elgin, I got a "no" from them.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg T
I know, but I want to find the actual intake valve closing at .050 before I buy the cam. I need an early closing intake, say about 34* to 35*, with a 108* LSA. I found a couple of cams that have the specs I'm looking for but don't know the valve timing events.

I hear ya, techinspector1, I'm about to go with the Crower or Isky that I found.
You are missing the point. If the intake valve closing point is that important to you , and if you are not going to degree in the cam and move it (adjust the cam advance) , if nessessary to that intake closing point value when you actually install the cam, anyways then you are not going to get the correct valve timing anyways.
You are wasting your time if you think you can just buy a cam and throw it in and it will have X intake valve closing point.

2. If you are building according the some "Dynamic compression" theory or calculation thing to pin point the cylinder pressure you are going to get it wrong anyways. (and most likely end up with the wrong cam in the motor as well)
You do not know the actual "running duration" of a cam anyways from the published specs therefore you cannot determine the the actual intake valve closing point in the actual running engine. The "advertized duration" is not the same a the actual running valve open, valve close duration in a running engine. Without knowing the actual running timing points any/all such dynamic compression calculations will be false.
A running engine is not just a simple compression pump. The in cylinder pressure is a lot different at the running rpm in a running engine than it is while just cranking the motor over with the starter.

If the Howards cam is manufactured so that when you install it, it is "straight up", then there is nothing stopping you fome moveing it a bit to achieve X intake closing point.
If the howards cam is manufatured so that it goes in 4deg advanced (typical of most street cams) and that does not result in your predetermined optimin intake closing point, then nothing is stopping you frome moveing the cam a bit.
if all this really matters to you you will be doing the math and degreeing in the cam anyways to verify correct valve timing regulardless of what brand you buy.

What exactly are you attempting to achieve with this?

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 09-29-2009 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:53 PM
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While we have the Howards cams heading, Good quality stuff? How is their Roller lifters and cams. Price? I was thinking of checking them out
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
You can easily calculate the valve events using a calculator.
with .050" duration and LSA. If it really matters to you, you are going to degree a cam in on install and adjust the cam phasing accordingly anyway.
This is not possible. You must have at least one additional value to figure the timing events, either Intake Centerline or Exhaust Centerline.

Examples:
Cam A has a 0.050" duration of 240 degrees, lobe separation angle of 112 degrees, intake centerline of 112 degrees and the exhaust centerline is not published. Since we know that the LSA is a result of adding the intake and exhaust centerlines and dividing by 2, we can deduce that the exhaust centerline is 112. Timing events would be 8/52/52/8.

Cam B has a duration of 240 degrees, lobe separation angle of 112 degrees, intake centerline of 110 degrees and the exhaust centerline is not published. By deducting 110 from 112, we find the value 2. By adding 2 to the lobe separation angle of 112, we can deduce that the exhaust centerline is 114. Timing events would be 10/50/54/6.

Cam C has a duration of 240 degrees, lobe separation angle of 112 degrees, intake centerline of 108 degrees and the exhaust centerline if not published. By deducting 108 from 112, we find the value 4. By adding 4 to the lobe separation angle of 112, we can deduce that the exhaust centerline is 116. Timing events would be 12/48/56/4.

Cam D has a duration of 240 degrees, lobe separation angle of 112 degrees, intake centerline of 106 degrees and the exhaust centerline is not published. By deducting 106 from 112, we find the value 6. By adding 6 to the lobe separation angle of 112, we can deduce that the exhaust centerline is 118. Timing events would be 14/46/58/2.

So you can see that even though all 4 of these cams use the same duration and the same lobe separation angle, the timing events vary widely depending on the intake and exhaust centerlines. Therefore, it is not possible to figure timing events with duration and lobe separation angle only.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
calculating the valve events isn't taht hard, use your LSA to find your ECL off your ICL and you're almost done- assuming symmetrical lobes.
Please explain in detail how this is possible. I am always interested in learning new methods.

I have a camshaft that has 240 degrees duration @0.050" with a lobe separation angle of 112 degrees and the lobes are symetrical from opening to closing flanks. What are the timing events, based on your statement here???

Oh, and just so you and the rest of the lads here know, there is no difference afforded by whether the opening and closing flanks of a lobe are symetrical or asymetrical. That part of the lobe profile has nothing to do with the opening and closing points ground into the lobe at the time of manufacture. An asymetrical lobe is used to jerk the valve open quickly and return it to its seat more gently to help prevent valve bounce on the seat. A lobe can be ground symetrically or asymetrically and still have the same opening and closing points.

Last edited by techinspector1; 09-29-2009 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airboat
While we have the Howards cams heading, Good quality stuff? How is their Roller lifters and cams. Price? I was thinking of checking them out
I have never heard anything bad about Howards Cams. My problem with them is that they don't publish enough information. If they would simply add either intake centerline or exhaust centerline to their specs, all aspects of timing events could be figured.

Last edited by techinspector1; 09-29-2009 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
You are wasting your time if you think you can just buy a cam and throw it in and it will have X intake valve closing point.
Following this line of thinking, why should we worry at all about numbers. Why not just belly up to the counter and say "Gimme a cam for a Chevy".
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
You do not know the actual "running duration" of a cam anyways from the published specs therefore you cannot determine the the actual intake valve closing point in the actual running engine. The "advertized duration" is not the same a the actual running valve open, valve close duration in a running engine. Without knowing the actual running timing points any/all such dynamic compression calculations will be false.
A running engine is not just a simple compression pump. The in cylinder pressure is a lot different at the running rpm in a running engine than it is while just cranking the motor over with the starter.

If the Howards cam is manufactured so that when you install it, it is "straight up", then there is nothing stopping you fome moveing it a bit to achieve X intake closing point.
If the howards cam is manufatured so that it goes in 4deg advanced (typical of most street cams) and that does not result in your predetermined optimin intake closing point, then nothing is stopping you frome moveing the cam a bit.
if all this really matters to you you will be doing the math and degreeing in the cam anyways to verify correct valve timing regulardless of what brand you buy.
You're not making any sense here.

In the third paragraph, you say "if all this really matters to you you will be doing the math and degreeing in the cam anyways to verify correct valve timing".

But in the first paragraph, you are saying
"You do not know the actual "running duration" of a cam anyways from the published specs therefore you cannot determine the the actual intake valve closing point in the actual running engine. The "advertized duration" is not the same a the actual running valve open, valve close duration in a running engine. Without knowing the actual running timing points any/all such dynamic compression calculations will be false."

So again, I ask, why rely on numbers at all. You're saying in the first paragraph that we can't possibly know the actual timing events and in the third paragraph you're saying that a builder should verify correct valve timing. You can't have it both ways.

I'm aware that pumping cylinder pressure is higher at the torque peak than it is cranking the motor with the starter, but WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. Otherwise, like I said in a previous post, we should just belly up to the counter and buy any cam and install it on the marks and forget it.
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Old 09-29-2009, 09:46 PM
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Techinspector1 has the right idea. The problem here is that everyone is assuming way too much and being much more critical than is necessary.

First, if I could determine the valve timing events from the info provided by Howards I would have done so. All they give me is lift, dur, and LSA. Now, I don't claim to know a hell of a lot about cam timing, but I do know that the intake valve can close just about anywhere and still maintain these given fugures.

The cam I choose is not critical to a build because it is going into a fairly stock 350 with ehaders, 416 heads and 175 psi cranking pressure. Yes, that is all I know about the engine. The only reason I am changing the cam is because I have a bad lifter that intermittently collapses. So, as long as I am changing the cam and lifters I may as well put something in there that will give me some grunt. The reason I want an early closing intake is preserve the cylinder pressure. I know enough to know that a 34* or 35* intake closing will give me more torque and streetability than a 46* closing and the tighter LSA will give me some good low end torque. I have found THIS ISKY , and THIS CROWER . The Crower would be installed at 4* advanced to get near my desired closing point. I have a found a couple from Howards but they don't include this info. Thats why I asked.

Thanx very much, Techispector1, for the wealth of info.
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